STELLARIS: New Paradox Game in SPAAAACE

[Berkut]

you went to Applebees, and thought the meal was great

Is that possible?

I'm down for some quick and dirty chains but I've generally always had a poor time there.

Good point - adjusted for a more believable analogy.

[celedhring]

you went to Applebees, and thought the meal was great

Is that possible?

I'm down for some quick and dirty chains but I've generally always had a poor time there.

Good point - adjusted for a more believable analogy.

Damn, I miss cheesecake factory 

My BMI probably doesn't, though...

[Grey Fox]

I find it bizarre that people will actually say thing like "the game plan now includes. "For now we'll only release 60 per cent of the features, then we'll make 'em pay for more."

I mean, you pay a certain amount of money, and you get a certain amount of product for that money. Either you evaluate it and say "That was worth it compared to the options" or "That was not worth it compared to the options".

Their plans for additional content they may charge you for AFTER that should not enter into it - it is like bitching that you went to Cheesecake Factory, and thought the meal was great, but are pissed off that now they want you to pay more for desert, because that should have been included in the dinner price.

Well, it isn't, and you know that going in. If they had promised desert, and then tried to ask for more money when desert shows up, you have a gripe. When you look at the menu, and see that the apple cobbler is a obviously separate and optional charge, it is silly to complain that no dinner is complete without desert in your mind, and hence it is a rip off to charge separately, so you are going to downgrade your evaluation of your dinner accordingly.

We all paid some amount of money for Stellaris knowing full well that it would come out having some issues that would need to be addressed, and would be addressed via a large number of patches that would include considerable additional content on top of actual gameplay fixes.

In addition to that, there would be DLC of content that would be optional, and then additional large content expansions as well that would also be charged for - and there would even be some blurring that would be annoying, where what could arguably be called "fixes" ends up in paid for content additions (and those are legitimate things to gripe about, even if we know they are inevitable).

This model is not a mystery any more.

My metric is simple: Does the game provide a reasonable amount of play value for the money I spent on it based on what they've given me so far and what I know I can expect over the next year or so? Given my hours played, the answer is pretty obvious to me - it is already one of the top 20 games in value I've ever owned.

There is also the concept of Feature creep. At some point, the baby needs to leave the womb no matter the shape it's in.

[celedhring]

I agree with Berkut by the way, one should judge the game by itself and not possible future paid DLCs. So far, despite the flaws - which they said they will address in early patches - I'm getting my money's worth of enjoyment from the game.

There's also something to be said to not cram too many features the first time you're at bat with this kind of game, too. Paradox has no experience in this genre, so I can understand why the underlying mechanics are lighter than in CK2 or EU4.

[Solmyr]

Fully agree with Berkut. I am in no way regretting spending the money on this game, and am looking forward to both free additions and paid DLCs/expansions.

[The Brain]

You are an idiot if you think that is being fair.

Paradox could pull this crap in 2002 because they were just getting their start. They've had enough successes now that the bar should be raised.

No Ide left behind.

[Monoriu]

Yeah, I also agree with Berkut.  Stellaris out of the box is a fully functioning game that is enjoyable.  I consider my money well-spent. 

[Darth Wagtaros]

you went to Applebees, and thought the meal was great

Is that possible?

I'm down for some quick and dirty chains but I've generally always had a poor time there.

NOt possible.

[The Minsky Moment]

Just make a race that's fanatical spiritual and collective, spam laser corvettes, and enslave everyone, and you might as well just press the win button.

First DLC: I'm Spartacus.

[The Minsky Moment]

I find it bizarre that people will actually say thing like "the game plan now includes. "For now we'll only release 60 per cent of the features, then we'll make 'em pay for more."

It's also missing the real economic model: early adopters pay a premium to get content earlier.  Late adopters can purchase a fuller set of content at a discount, but at the price of not getting any access before then.

"Price discrimination" sounds mean but Econ 101 teaches it is just efficient allocation.  Use a voluntary mechanism to identify people who value a particular product or service more and charge them accordingly; discount for those for value it less. 

[Jaron]

I find it bizarre that people will actually say thing like "the game plan now includes. "For now we'll only release 60 per cent of the features, then we'll make 'em pay for more."

I mean, you pay a certain amount of money, and you get a certain amount of product for that money. Either you evaluate it and say "That was worth it compared to the options" or "That was not worth it compared to the options".

Their plans for additional content they may charge you for AFTER that should not enter into it - it is like bitching that you went to Cheesecake Factory, and thought the meal was great, but are pissed off that now they want you to pay more for desert, because that should have been included in the dinner price.

Well, it isn't, and you know that going in. If they had promised desert, and then tried to ask for more money when desert shows up, you have a gripe. When you look at the menu, and see that the apple cobbler is a obviously separate and optional charge, it is silly to complain that no dinner is complete without desert in your mind, and hence it is a rip off to charge separately, so you are going to downgrade your evaluation of your dinner accordingly.

We all paid some amount of money for Stellaris knowing full well that it would come out having some issues that would need to be addressed, and would be addressed via a large number of patches that would include considerable additional content on top of actual gameplay fixes.

In addition to that, there would be DLC of content that would be optional, and then additional large content expansions as well that would also be charged for - and there would even be some blurring that would be annoying, where what could arguably be called "fixes" ends up in paid for content additions (and those are legitimate things to gripe about, even if we know they are inevitable).

This model is not a mystery any more.

My metric is simple: Does the game provide a reasonable amount of play value for the money I spent on it based on what they've given me so far and what I know I can expect over the next year or so? Given my hours played, the answer is pretty obvious to me - it is already one of the top 20 games in value I've ever owned.

I feel like this is both an unfair characterization of my argument and a personal attack against me. Uncalled for.

I'm fine with them saying "Here is our core feature set for Stellaris and these new features will be added via patches or via DLC." I am also forgiving about minor or obscure bugs. For example, I heard of a bug where if you annex a vassal the game gives you all the spaceships in the system, even if they don't belong to the vassal. Probably hard to find that in a test.

What I am upset about is CORE game mechanics that were released in broken or untested states. Space combat is the best example. That is absolutely a critical part of Stellaris at every stage, and the current balance of the game is such that only corvettes are worth building. People are destroying 45k FE fleets with 3k corvette fleets because ships can't hit each other. From the Dev diaries, it is also clear the developers knew the game didn't have much going on beyond the early game. That should have definitely been addressed.

To summarize: I'm okay with Stellaris 1.0 not being filled with every feature the game will ever have. I'm okay with it having some obscure or non impactful bugs. I am not okay with core game mechanics releasing broken because Paradox ought to be better than that at this point.

To their credit though - at least their games don't CTD frequently on release..

[garbon]

In early stages but I see on steam there is now a user who has uploaded fairly decent animated species sprites for the Cardassians (just one male and one female), Bajorans (looks large like an overlay of the nasal feature on typical humans) and Andorians. Haven't tried the latter as 1) preview image looks a little shoddy / that always looked like a ridiculous Star Trek race.

[Martinus]

In early stages but I see on steam there is now a user who has uploaded fairly decent animated species sprites for the Cardassians (just one male and one female), Bajorans (looks large like an overlay of the nasal feature on typical humans) and Andorians. Haven't tried the latter as 1) preview image looks a little shoddy / that always looked like a ridiculous Star Trek race.

Who do they have as a male Cardassian? Kanye?

[celedhring]

I'm geeky enough that every time I hear the name Kardashian I still picture guys with bulby foreheads. 

[Grey Fox]

I have been facing an energy crisis for a couple of decades now & I was at lost at a solution. Everything is tapped out, my colonies are full of Power Plants, etc.

Then, it dawned on me. For a one time payment of 1300 minerals each, 2 far flung empire traded 7 credits a month for 10 years each.