Oldest(?) Quran fragments found in Birmingham.

[Queequeg]

Fucking suck it, "Mohammed was fictional" asshole-scholars. 

I thought the argument was that Mohammed was arguing for a Hagarian interpretation of Arabic roots and called for them to help the Jews kick the non-Semites out of the Levant and it escalated from there. I thought the basis for this was fairly strong and does explain some irregularities.  Not sure why carefully considering the evidence makes one an asshole.

There's an entire, wool-headed tradition of scholarship that argues that Mohammed was basically King Arthur because the first copies of the entire Quran we have are IIRC late Ummayad or Abbasid even. 

[Valmy]

There's an entire, wool-headed tradition of scholarship that argues that Mohammed was basically King Arthur because the first copies of the entire Quran we have are IIRC late Ummayad or Abbasid even. 

Well now they wight have to adjust their theories.

[Razgovory]

There's an entire, wool-headed tradition of scholarship that argues that Mohammed was basically King Arthur because the first copies of the entire Quran we have are IIRC late Ummayad or Abbasid even. 

Well now they wight have to adjust their theories.

I doubt they will do so.

[Razgovory]

I hope they find discrepancies with later versions

Yeah, cause otherwise you'd have to convert.

[Valmy]

I doubt they will do so.

Everybody is evil in Raz's world. Do I have to find ten historians and show they change their theories with new evidence?

[Razgovory]

I doubt they will do so.

Everybody is evil in Raz's world. Do I have to find ten historians and show they change their theories with new evidence?

It's my experience that people who expound theories that offensive to lots of people do so because they are offensive to lots of people not because facts support them.  For instance, holocaust deniers.

[The Minsky Moment]

There's an entire, wool-headed tradition of scholarship that argues that Mohammed was basically King Arthur because the first copies of the entire Quran we have are IIRC late Ummayad or Abbasid even.

There was one theory that it was primary composed under rabbinic influence in 8th century Baghdad. 

That said the "hagarism" theory Valmy alluded to is IMO just as bonkers, and IIRC one of the co-authors of the original book abandoned it.

[Tamas]

There's an entire, wool-headed tradition of scholarship that argues that Mohammed was basically King Arthur because the first copies of the entire Quran we have are IIRC late Ummayad or Abbasid even. 

Well now they wight have to adjust their theories.

I would wait for a second opinion first. I read something on the BBC about some education high profile guy basically confirming that the report on the attempted muslim radical overtake on the Birmingham education system was legit and spot on.
Odds of this copy miraculously surfacing exactly there must be pretty low.

[Valmy]

There was one theory that it was primary composed under rabbinic influence in 8th century Baghdad. 

That said the "hagarism" theory Valmy alluded to is IMO just as bonkers, and IIRC one of the co-authors of the original book abandoned it.

Why is it bonkers? Wasn't that how the Byzantines referred to them for awhile? I mean it may be wrong but I was not aware it was insane.

[Archy]

http://visitbirmingham.com/what-to-do/attractions/

Come and visit the newest, most exciting visitor attraction the Wonderful World of Trains and Planes in the heart of Birmingham, where you can journey by train from the UK to France, Germany, Canada and Japan - with Switzerland, the United States and Italy among the countries coming later. - See more at: http://visitbirmingham.com/what-to-do/attractions/#sthash.In3xFweC.dpuf

Ok ...

https://wonderfulworldtrainsplanes.co.uk

(Not bad, but nowhere near the Hamburg model train diorama)

But:

Fancy piloting a Cessna over Las Vegas?
Or landing a sea plane on the ocean?

You can at Birmingham's newest family attraction Wonderful World of Trains & Planes without the need for your passport!

Our expertly programmed and realistic flight simulators allow you to fly a number of planes (even a sea plane!) over a number of famous cities, airports and runways...even our very own BHX Birmingham International Airport.

Can you hold your nerve in the cockpit whilst landing in JFK?

Our friendly and expert 'on-hand' team will give you a quick rundown to get the best out of your experience – just don't crash!

Whoa!

...

Oh.





I guess visiting Birmingham is a bit like taking a trip to Duisburg, Dortmund or Bielefeld.

Dortmund at least has the big Christmas market going for it. Yes I went their a couple of times for it. I don't think Birmingham has even that

[derspiess]

Will it be sent to Gitmo for flushing?

Pee on it!

[garbon]

To think - I once considered moving to Birmingham.

[derspiess]

Speaking of which, UAB is getting its football team back

[viper37]

(Mecca an important trading hub...trade in what going where exactly?)

spice.  The spice comes from the worms in the desert, I think.

The more practical routes were affected by piracy and war between Byzance and the Persians, most likely.  So spice and other exotic merchandises arrived there by caravan and could then travel safely toward byzance or the persians or elsewhere.

[crazy canuck]

Very interesting find; reinforces the traditional account of Quranic reception.

Perhaps.  The find, if authenticated by independent researchers, is also consistent with the theory that the Quran was a creation of many authors and sources over time and that this fragment forms part of that tradition.