Greek Referendum Poll

[Syt]

Interesting move by Varoufakis. Are they playing bad cop/good cop?

Well, all Varoufakis managed to do was to piss everyone off, including the Euro finance ministers who were originally opposed to more austerity measures. Putting someone else in his chair could be very conducive to resuming constructive dialogue.

[The Larch]

Incidentally, I missed this earlier:

Greek non-payment of ECB bonds would not mean default rating-S&P

Failure by Greece to repay 6.7 billion euros worth of bonds held by the European Central Bank and maturing at the end of July would not constitute default under Standard and Poor's criteria, the ratings agency said on Monday.

It said its sovereign ratings criteria related to a government's ability and willingness to service obligations to commercial creditors and it considered the ECB as an official creditor.

It said nonpayment would be seen as a negative factor and could lead to a lower long-term rating than the current CCC rating but it would not constitute selective default (SD).

So it seems Greece has a way out without going bankrupt - it just needs to tell the Troika to fuck off. 

It's more or less the same with IMF payments. The IMF put up a Q&A when Greece missed the payment last week saying basically that they can stop paying for a whole year before it has any real consequences, besides being unable to get additional financing for them.

[Martinus]

Maybe I'm inattentive but this is quite a crucial part and I don't remember it seeing mentioned in mainstream media.

[The Larch]

Maybe I'm inattentive but this is quite a crucial part and I don't remember it seeing mentioned in mainstream media.

I found it at the IMF's website when they published their report last week supporting debt reduction for Greece. Here it is:

http://www.imf.org/external/country/grc/greecefaq.htm

And these are the key parts IMO:

Q2. What happens to Greece because of the failure to make a repayment when due?

The immediate effect is that Greece can no longer receive financing from the IMF under the existing extended arrangement and the IMF will not approve new financing to Greece until it clears its arrears. This is standard procedure when a member fails to repay the IMF. The IMF's Selected Decisions, 37th issue, page 912, spell out the procedures for a failure to repay and apply to all of its 188 members.

Greece remains a member of the Fund, with voting rights and representation on its Executive Board. The IMF's annual health check of a member country's economy (called surveillance) will continue to be an obligation. For the time being, Greece will also be eligible for IMF technical assistance — that is, access to IMF expertise on a range of economic issues, including tax administration and financial sector policies.


Q6. Are there penalties for a failure to repay?

The most immediate "penalty" is that the member can no longer receive IMF financing.

Within 12 months, the Executive Board may consider a declaration of ineligibility against Greece if Greece continues to incur arrears to the IMF. If the non-payment persists for more than 12 months, the IMF Executive Board may declare that the country is "noncooperative" in efforts to clear arrears, which could trigger a suspension of technical assistance, possibly followed by a suspension of voting rights and, ultimately—if the non-cooperation is extreme and protracted—compulsory withdrawal from the IMF. The timetable for these steps is flexible, as spelled out in the IMF's Selected Decisions, page 912.


Q7. What does being in arrears to the IMF mean for Greece's other creditors?

The implications of Greece accumulating arrears to the IMF are for other creditors to determine.

Basically, it means that, unsurprisingly, international organizations are rather flexible in the way they work, and that it's not automatic doom and gloom to miss a deadline.

[Monoriu]

I read somewhere that, prior to the 08/09 financial crisis, Greece allowed retirement at 55, and pensioners could receive 96% of their last year's salary indefinitely. 

True?

[The Brain]

I read somewhere that, prior to the 08/09 financial crisis, Greece allowed retirement at 55, and pensioners could receive 96% of their last year's salary indefinitely. 

True?

How dare you suggest that Greece is a joke?

[Tamas]

I read somewhere that, prior to the 08/09 financial crisis, Greece allowed retirement at 55, and pensioners could receive 96% of their last year's salary indefinitely. 

True?

Yes it was part of the evil plot of the IMF to eventually ruin the country and grab all its riches.

[Valmy]

Greece is kind of like Euro Argentina isn't it? Some countries never learn.

[grumbler]

I read somewhere that, prior to the 08/09 financial crisis, Greece allowed retirement at 55, and pensioners could receive 96% of their last year's salary indefinitely. 

True?

That was true for selected "high risk" jobs (including hairdressers, justified by their exposure to chemicals!) but the average Greek retired at just slightly over the EU average age, from what i recall reading.  I don't recall the percentage of salary that they collected in pensions, other than remembering that it was high.

[Valmy]

I would need to see the European average to be properly outraged at that

Man those hairdressers had a good lobbyist.

[HVC]

Greece is kind of like Euro Argentina isn't it? Some countries never learn.

the stupid ones are the ones that keep giving them money.

[Martinus]

You guys need to remember that the "lazy well paid Greeks" is to a large extent a myth perpetrated by tabloids in countries such as Germany.

[Valmy]

You guys need to remember that the "lazy well paid Greeks" is to a large extent a myth perpetrated by tabloids in countries such as Germany.

Laziness has nothing to do with anything. It is about a political culture of fucking things up, making your own people suffer through your own incompetence, and then convincing them it was an evil outsiders fault. Then straighten up for a bit and then do it again.

[Tamas]

You guys need to remember that the "lazy well paid Greeks" is to a large extent a myth perpetrated by tabloids in countries such as Germany.

Laziness has nothing to do with anything. It is about a political culture of fucking things up, making your own people suffer through your own incompetence, and then convincing them it was an evil outsiders fault. Then straighten up for a bit and then do it again.

Exactly

[Martinus]

You guys need to remember that the "lazy well paid Greeks" is to a large extent a myth perpetrated by tabloids in countries such as Germany.

Laziness has nothing to do with anything. It is about a political culture of fucking things up, making your own people suffer through your own incompetence, and then convincing them it was an evil outsiders fault. Then straighten up for a bit and then do it again.

The problem is that Syriza is not an establishment party so they, at least formally, come from outside of that culture.