The Boy Who Cried Robot: A World Without Work

Started by jimmy olsen, June 28, 2015, 12:26:12 AM

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What should we do if automation renders most people permanently unemployed?

Negative Income Tax
26 (52%)
Communist command economy directed by AI
7 (14%)
Purge/sterilize the poor
3 (6%)
The machines will eradicate us, so why worry about unemployment?
7 (14%)
Other, please specify
7 (14%)

Total Members Voted: 49

DGuller

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 05:26:12 PM
The jobs will come as long as there are not impediments to the market clearing.  Whether we will be happy with the pay is another question.
I think there are a lot of assumption hidden behind that certainty.  Assumptions that so far have not been violated significantly, but there is no guarantee that this state of things will continue indefinitely.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2017, 05:41:53 PM
I think there are a lot of assumption hidden behind that certainty.  Assumptions that so far have not been violated significantly, but there is no guarantee that this state of things will continue indefinitely.

I think the only assumptions my conclusion requires are that human labor has non zero value, and that capital does not have infinite value.

DGuller

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 05:48:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2017, 05:41:53 PM
I think there are a lot of assumption hidden behind that certainty.  Assumptions that so far have not been violated significantly, but there is no guarantee that this state of things will continue indefinitely.

I think the only assumptions my conclusion requires are that human labor has non zero value, and that capital does not have infinite value.
At least one other assumption seems to be that human labor has zero cost to the provider.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2017, 06:08:16 PM
At least one other assumption seems to be that human labor has zero cost to the provider.

I don't follow.  By provider I assume you mean the worker?

DGuller

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2017, 06:08:16 PM
At least one other assumption seems to be that human labor has zero cost to the provider.

I don't follow.  By provider I assume you mean the worker?
Yes.

Admiral Yi

OK, I get it.  You're talking about labor value less than subsistence.

It would be helpful if sometimes you weren't so opaque.

alfred russel

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
OK, I get it.  You're talking about labor value less than subsistence.

It would be helpful if sometimes you weren't so opaque.

Says the guy with random nicknames for people I don't remember and obscure references for events.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

viper37

Quote from: alfred russel on April 21, 2017, 09:43:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
OK, I get it.  You're talking about labor value less than subsistence.

It would be helpful if sometimes you weren't so opaque.

Says the guy with random nicknames for people I don't remember and obscure references for events.
+1000 :P
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Eddie Teach

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?


grumbler

#295
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 22, 2017, 01:57:53 AM
Fuck all y'all.

No sense getting mad at Squishy for simply being fad.  :rolleyes:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2017, 06:15:38 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 21, 2017, 06:08:16 PM
At least one other assumption seems to be that human labor has zero cost to the provider.

I don't follow.  By provider I assume you mean the worker?
Yes.

But that's not true. It costs calories. And time. The the byproducts of the calories consumed, and the waste disposal costs of those. And in some cases educational investment. And the calories and time and resources involved with that.

Really, if it only costed the time, it would still be the most valuable thing a person has to trade.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

jimmy olsen

It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
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Caliga

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CountDeMoney

I don't have to worry about whether robots will take my job.  Rich people already took it to get richier.