The Off Topic Topic

[Jacob]

i was thinking more about the oscar voters.

That's fine, but the conversation is about Tamas' fears that white men are being hard done by.

[DGuller]

i was thinking more about the oscar voters.

That's fine, but the conversation is about Tamas' fears that white men are being hard done by.

I think that's a misrepresentation of what Tamas was saying.  I think Tamas expressed annoyance that awards are being given to correct a social justice wrong of the day, rather than, say, to reward good movies.  I have no idea whether that's true or not, but regardless of the truth value of Tamas's statement, I think we should try to understand it first.

[Sheilbh]

To flip it the other way - does it take a year when there is almost no major studio releases so it's just indies for a more diverse list? Even if it is was still fairly male dominated. I think it's especially an issue in the "technical" categories.

And the lack of Rocks nominations and awards is a disagrace

[Admiral Yi]

There's a Catch -22 in this situation.  As long as people are talking about the percieved injustice of certain minorities not receiving their fair share of prizes, others will believe that prizes are awarded (at least partly) on the basis of implicit quotas instead of merit, even if a given award was handed out on merit, coincidentally to a woman or minority member.

[Jacob]

I think that's a misrepresentation of what Tamas was saying.  I think Tamas expressed annoyance that awards are being given to correct a social justice wrong of the day, rather than, say, to reward good movies.  I have no idea whether that's true or not, but regardless of the truth value of Tamas's statement, I think we should try to understand it first.

Yeah, we should definitely give our full attention to Tamas' feelings that when people who aren't white men win it's just due to woke people trying to make themselves feel better. That's totally something that requires a whole bunch of intellectual effort, given the compelling evidence Tamas has already presented.

[Josquius]

Interesting encounter of the day.
Walked into a charity bookshop and spotted  a hardback of Tony Benn's Diaries for £1. Humorously in the sci/fi fantasy section. I pick it up and look through the rest of the shop. As I approach the till I note a middle aged man complaining there's only one good book amongst the biography section and buying it.
Its another copy of the same book, Tony Benn's Diaries.
What're the odds.

[Jacob]

You saw your future self!

[Oexmelin]

https://poestories.com/read/williamwilson

[mongers]

You saw your future self!

[Tamas]

I think that's a misrepresentation of what Tamas was saying.  I think Tamas expressed annoyance that awards are being given to correct a social justice wrong of the day, rather than, say, to reward good movies.  I have no idea whether that's true or not, but regardless of the truth value of Tamas's statement, I think we should try to understand it first.

Yeah, we should definitely give our full attention to Tamas' feelings that when people who aren't white men win it's just due to woke people trying to make themselves feel better. That's totally something that requires a whole bunch of intellectual effort, given the compelling evidence Tamas has already presented.

I apologise for trying to explain my point since it is apparently too sinful to be worthy of consideration, but my point was that these decisions were not by "woke people", but rather people who are anything but as showcased by their past 100 years of awards, yet now trying to present themselves as "woke".

But, two points: one, Sheilbh is probaby right on this. Two, I'll try to refrain in the future from discussing topics that might cast the suspicion of white supremacist on me. 

[garbon]

I think that's a misrepresentation of what Tamas was saying.  I think Tamas expressed annoyance that awards are being given to correct a social justice wrong of the day, rather than, say, to reward good movies.  I have no idea whether that's true or not, but regardless of the truth value of Tamas's statement, I think we should try to understand it first.

Yeah, we should definitely give our full attention to Tamas' feelings that when people who aren't white men win it's just due to woke people trying to make themselves feel better. That's totally something that requires a whole bunch of intellectual effort, given the compelling evidence Tamas has already presented.

I apologise for trying to explain my point since it is apparently too sinful to be worthy of consideration, but my point was that these decisions were not by "woke people", but rather people who are anything but as showcased by their past 100 years of awards, yet now trying to present themselves as "woke".

But, two points: one, Sheilbh is probaby right on this. Two, I'll try to refrain in the future from discussing topics that might cast the suspicion of white supremacist on me. 

[Jacob]

I apologise for trying to explain my point since it is apparently too sinful to be worthy of consideration, but my point was that these decisions were not by "woke people", but rather people who are anything but as showcased by their past 100 years of awards, yet now trying to present themselves as "woke".

There's nothing about sin at all, that's all in your head. My point (and to be fair, I was being sarcastic when I made it rather than earnest) is that you're making an assumption that the distribution of the awards was based on some sort desire to give more of them to people who aren't white men, and proceeded to speculate on the best and most effective way to do that from your perspective. You didn't entertain the possibility that just maybe the awards were given based on reasons other than race and gender (like say the merits of the work, or even just old fashioned maneuvering and politicking independent of race/gender issues).

I know you're not a white supremacist, but IMO if you make the assertion that the Oscars were awarded on the basis of race and gender you should present some evidence beyond who the recipients were.

I'll try to refrain in the future from discussing topics that might cast the suspicion of white supremacist on me.

I consider it highly unlikely that you'll be able to refrain yourself from posting on these issues

[celedhring]

I find weird arguing whether these Oscars were awarded on merit, given how they rarely are.

FWIW, Nomadland is #8 on the BFI list, which is rare (as in high) for your typical Oscar winner, and it's the best placed of all nominees.

[Jacob]

I find weird arguing whether these Oscars were awarded on merit, given how they rarely are.

FWIW, Nomadland is #8 on the BFI list, which is rare (as in high) for your typical Oscar winner, and it's the best placed of all nominees.

I think there's a fairly big space between "awarded on filmic merit" and "awarded based on idenitity politics"?

[Tonitrus]

I think the George C. Scott position on Oscar/film awards is the best and most honest one.