The Off Topic Topic

[Sheilbh]

Good, they shouldn't think they are safe.

I mean she left the party and immediately apologized. In what way was she signalling that she was safe to do whatever she wanted? She clearly figured out pretty quickly what she did was wrong and tried to make amends.

I think by doing it in the first place. I don't think I've ever in my life thought I could either do blackface or say the n word. I don't know if that's safeness, it's just never been something I would be comfortable doing or that would cross my mind.

[Valmy]

Good, they shouldn't think they are safe.

I mean she left the party and immediately apologized. In what way was she signalling that she was safe to do whatever she wanted? She clearly figured out pretty quickly what she did was wrong and tried to make amends.

I think by doing it in the first place. I don't think I've ever in my life thought I could either do blackface or say the n word. I don't know if that's safeness, it's just never been something I would be comfortable doing or that would cross my mind.

I am right there with you but some people act out of ignorance or idiocy and if they respond appropriately when informed then I don't see why more action is needed.

[derspiess]

Okay now apparently they're going after the Cream of Wheat guy.  Never knew his back story but if what someone posted is true, I guess he's got to go.

But Mrs. Butterworth?  Seriously??  How could she offend? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z45ys7oJuCA

I dunno, here's the story according to Wiki:

The original boxes of Cream of Wheat were handmade and lettered, and they were emblazoned with the image of an African American chef produced by Emery Mapes. The character was named Rastus and was developed by artist Edward V. Brewer. Rastus was included on all boxes and advertisements. It has long been thought that a chef named Frank L. White was the model for the chef shown on the Cream of Wheat box—a claim White himself made. White's headstone contains his name and an etching taken from the man depicted on the Cream of Wheat box.[9]

Leading up to 2020, there had been public pressure aimed at various companies to change branding that had racist origins, such as Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's.[10] The character of Rastus had once been depicted by B&G Foods as a cook who was barely literate and did not know about vitamins. Rastus is also a derogatory term traditionally associated with African Americans in the United States. For these reasons, B&G Foods had been under public pressure for years to make changes.[11]

Demands from the public increased during the George Floyd protests in 2020. In response, on June 17, 2020, B&G Foods said they were "initiating an immediate review of the Cream of Wheat brand packaging."[12]

It's just a picture of a black chef - and the chef himself seemed proud of it.  The only offensive thing appears to be that they gave the character the name "Rastus" which is apparently derogatory, although I don't know if that name was ever used in marketing.

Some of the Cream of Wheat advertisements used in the 1920s like this one would be considered racist by today's standards.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to earlier.  The Mrs. Butterworth thing is what perplexes me.

[alfred russel]

Another extreme cancel culture example.  Unfortunately the original article is paywalled, but heavily quoted in this critique:

https://reason.com/2020/06/18/washington-post-blackface-halloween-costume-cancel-culture/

50-something year old woman goes to a Halloween Party in 2018 hosted by a cartoonist for the Washington Post.  This woman wore a business suit, wore blackface, and had a name tag that read "Hello, my name is Megyn Kelly".  Apparently this was because Kelly had said earlier in the week that "When I was a kid, that was okay, as long as you were dressing up as, like, a character."

Anyways, two people took offence to the blackface back in 2018, confronted the woman, and she left the party.  She apologized to the cartoonist host the next day for her costume.

But anyways two years later these two decide to dig this story up.  They didn't know the woman's name so they went back to the cartoonist.  When he didn't immediately give up her name, they accused him of complicity in her racism.  The cartoonist gave up the name, the two spoke with the woman, the woman reported this to her employer, who immediately fired her.

And this woman... is nobody.  She's a government contractor, nobody famous or noteworthy.

And then it turns into a 3000 word story in the Washington Post.

Bye, bitch.

Blackface is offensive because it historically it involved white people pretending to be black, at which point they exaggerated negative stereotypes. In this case, the woman was clearly not pretending to be black, but pretending to be Megyn Kelly pretending to be black.

This is really no different than Robert Downey Jr.'s role in Tropic Thunder - only that obviously had a lot more thought and reflection involved. Should Robert Downey Jr. and Ben Stiller be allowed to work again, and should Paramount stop distribution of that movie? Or are we just going to pick on this woman because she is weak?

[Barrister]

Good, they shouldn't think they are safe.

I mean she left the party and immediately apologized. In what way was she signalling that she was safe to do whatever she wanted? She clearly figured out pretty quickly what she did was wrong and tried to make amends.

I think by doing it in the first place. I don't think I've ever in my life thought I could either do blackface or say the n word. I don't know if that's safeness, it's just never been something I would be comfortable doing or that would cross my mind.

I'm fairly sure I've used the N-word before.  Now to be very, very clear I've never called a black person the N-word!  But I suspect I may have called a white buddy "my nigga" or something equally stupid when I was young.

I absolutely wouldn't do that now!  But I also don't think I should be fired for something I did 20-25 years ago where I didn't intend any malice.

As for blackface, it's just something I wouldn't have considered.  It's not something really in the Canadian historical experience.  I mean I knew it was considered bad in the US as I remembered the Ted Danson/Whoopie Goldberg blackface incident, but it wouldn't have otherwise ever crossed my mind.  Oh actually I did wear "blackface" once!  I was a kid, I had a sweet Darth Vader costume for halloween, but for some kind of school event we couldn't wear masks, so we blacked my face with a burnt cork.  Not sure if that counts.

And I also remember that my Prime Minister wore blackface on multiple occasions when he was younger.  And that came out during an election campaign.  And voters were okay enough with it to re-elect him.



p.s. I think I also reserve the right to use the N-word in one specific context: if I am quoting what someone else said in court proceedings.  as in "And then the Accused told the complainant 'I'm going to kill you you mf-ing N-word'".  I can't recall if I've ever used that word in this context, but Lord knows I've quoted some pretty horrible language in court.

[Tamas]

Good, they shouldn't think they are safe.

I mean she left the party and immediately apologized. In what way was she signalling that she was safe to do whatever she wanted? She clearly figured out pretty quickly what she did was wrong and tried to make amends.

I think by doing it in the first place. I don't think I've ever in my life thought I could either do blackface or say the n word. I don't know if that's safeness, it's just never been something I would be comfortable doing or that would cross my mind.

I am right there with you but some people act out of ignorance or idiocy and if they respond appropriately when informed then I don't see why more action is needed.

Now, I'd be inclined to agree with that, except that this is precisely what the so called "alt-right" have been using the last few years to say terrible things "for the laughs".

Having said that, what happened to that ignorant/racist lady seems excessive. But, there are always cultural norms that destroy you if you break them, these always change, on the long term for the better. You need to keep up or even better keep your mouth shut. That's how people, both tolerant and intolerant, survived for untold millennia.

[Savonarola]

Yeah, that's what I was referring to earlier.  The Mrs. Butterworth thing is what perplexes me.

I know, it's like Dr. Timothy Leary said: "Sometimes a talking bottle of syrup is just a talking bottle of syrup."



I'm guessing they think people are going to confuse her with Aunt Jemima and that it's just easier to re-brand than to face the backlash.

[grumbler]

The world built by the Boomers where you be a nice person in your public persona but a sociopathic predator in your private life is quickly eroding.

It is not a entirely bad thing.

This woman is hardly a sociopathic predator.  She wore ill-advised blackface to a party - seemingly to make fun of Megyn Kelly, not to deliberately offend anyone (other than Kelly).

Never mind that this woman didn't need to lose her job - it's unbelievable that the Post even considered this newsworthy.

The world built by the Millenials where you be a nice person in your public persona but a sociopathic predator SJW online is not at all eroding.

It is an entirely bad thing.

[grumbler]

Good, they shouldn't think they are safe.

I mean she left the party and immediately apologized. In what way was she signalling that she was safe to do whatever she wanted? She clearly figured out pretty quickly what she did was wrong and tried to make amends.

Intolerant people don't accept the concept of contrition.  They will only settle for retribution.  Intolerant people are the problem, not the solution.

[Eddie Teach]

I agree with the Boomer.

[Grey Fox]

The world built by the Boomers where you be a nice person in your public persona but a sociopathic predator in your private life is quickly eroding.

It is not a entirely bad thing.

This woman is hardly a sociopathic predator.  She wore ill-advised blackface to a party - seemingly to make fun of Megyn Kelly, not to deliberately offend anyone (other than Kelly).

Never mind that this woman didn't need to lose her job - it's unbelievable that the Post even considered this newsworthy.

The world built by the Millenials where you be a nice person in your public persona but a sociopathic predator SJW online is not at all eroding.

It is an entirely bad thing.

You are right. Web2.0 was a bad idea.

[DGuller]

I think cancel culture is an excuse for some awful people do be awful and feel virtuous about it.  They don't care about the actual transgressions, so they can't care about contrition, they just want victims for group bullying that society won't protect.

[Sheilbh]

Protests in Belarus after Lukashenko arrested a leading opposition figure and announced he'll run for a sixth term.

Current reports of protests in every major city and mobile internet has been shut down in Minsk. Riot police have been breaking up protests and closing streets in Minsk and Lukashenko has said he won't allow a colour revolution: "Do not force us to resolve this with violence".

All of that feels like things could escalate quickly. No idea if there are many (any?) Western journalists in Belarus to report though.

[derspiess]

I think cancel culture is an excuse for some awful people do be awful and feel virtuous about it.  They don't care about the actual transgressions, so they can't care about contrition, they just want victims for group bullying that society won't protect.

There's also a quasi-religious zeal on the part of said awful people.  Their targets can't simply be wrong; they are evil and must be destroyed.

[The Brain]

Are we talking about people or Chicago style pizza?