The Off Topic Topic

[crazy canuck]

Greater Vancouver has the additional problem that we have no more land to develop.  We are hemmed in by the ocean to the West, mountains to the North and East and the border to the South.

[Admiral Yi]

The Economist says all expensive cities should go high rise.

[Sheilbh]

It depends. High rise in the U.K. is relatively low density to other options. Agree we need to build up, but I'm not sure high rise is necessarily the solution.

[Syt]

Austrian court found two parents guilty of killing their 13 year old daughter through negligence. She was suffering from pancreatitis (easily treated by doctors), but they're part of a Christian fringe sect that believes that only God can heal. So they spent their days in prayer and fasting while their daughter fell into coma and eventually died.

Said their defender in court, "Believing in miracles and miracle healing is not absurd. Otherwise, among others, the Catholic Church would be absurd." 

[The Brain]

Said their defender in court, "Believing in miracles and miracle healing is not absurd. Otherwise, among others, the Catholic Church would be absurd." 

indeed.

[Richard Hakluyt]

It depends. High rise in the U.K. is relatively low density to other options. Agree we need to build up, but I'm not sure high rise is necessarily the solution.

I'm in favour of an update of the traditional terraced housing which, at least in the UK, permits the highest densities. Efficient soundproofing and good use of skylights would make the terraced option far more attractive; they could be 3 storeys high too, give people a bit of space.

[Tamas]

It depends. High rise in the U.K. is relatively low density to other options. Agree we need to build up, but I'm not sure high rise is necessarily the solution.

I'm in favour of an update of the traditional terraced housing which, at least in the UK, permits the highest densities. Efficient soundproofing and good use of skylights would make the terraced option far more attractive; they could be 3 storeys high too, give people a bit of space.

Isn't that just high rise turned sideways though? A LOT of space gets wasted upward.

[The Brain]

Is there anything wrong with high rise?

[Monoriu]

The Economist says all expensive cities should go high rise.

Sure, but even that may not be enough.  It isn't like we haven't tried. 

[Eddie Teach]

There is a point where your city should stop growing.

[Tamas]

This I think is the true damage of the 2008 crisis. Slashed interest rates and endless money printing coupled with other demographic and economic trends have made properties by far the most sensible form of investment.

Places like England where these tendencies are reinforced by legislation intended to subsidise landlord are already on the forefront of turning society into a (historically still fairly wide) class of rentiers and renters. In effect nobility and their subjects. But this can form over time in other countries as well.

It is going to end like how Victorian misery of the working classes ended: when the subject class will have enough of it and starts getting uppity, measures will be made to resolve the situation. Until then, it is too beneficial for rulers and a lot of their voters to keep things as they are.

[crazy canuck]

The problem with that analysis is that at least in Vancouver the transition is happening while social democratic governments who are renter friendly are in power.

[Tamas]

Well what is meant by renter-friendly?

If they subsidise renting that increases demand for it, not decreases it.

I am not pro-renting. I am anti-property hoarding. IMHO there are two real ways governments can help the situation: relax building restrictions, and build social housing. i.e. encourage the increase of supply, and not demand. Demand is high enough as is, but we have BS stuff like "help to buy" in the UK, which uses a combination of taxpayer money and government guarantees on some loans to make sure those who need a home can offer more for it, instead of trying to make sure they have properties to buy.

[crazy canuck]

That solution works if one can build supply to meet demand.  But it is not as simple as fixing a regulatory issue.  Since we can only build up now, the small builder/developer is having a harder time.  Financing and building costs limit the entrants.  And those folks can afford to accumulate land and hold for better profits.

It is in fact capitalism at work.

[dps]

There is a point where your city should stop growing.

The problem in HK is that geographic expansion is politically constricted.  They have nowhere to go but to build high.