The Off Topic Topic

[Tamas]

What is definitely shitty though, is that the government seemed to have confirmed of letting 400 suspected islamist fighters return to the UK. Seems like the only special thing in her case is that she was made into a PR stunt by both sides.

[The Larch]

She did seem to think she can just come back and be a welfare mother:

The ITV News security editor, Rohit Kachroo, showed her a copy of the letter at the Syria refugee camp where she is being held.

She said of the letter: "It's kind of heart-breaking to read. My family made it sound like it would be a lot easier for me to come back to the UK when I was speaking to them in Baghouz. It's kind of hard to swallow.

"I heard that other people are being sent back to Britain so I don't know why my case is any different to other people, or is it just because I was on the news four years ago?" she said.

"Another option I might try with my family is my husband is from Holland and he has family in Holland. Maybe I can ask for citizenship in Holland. If he gets sent back to prison in Holland I can just wait for him while he is in prison.

Where do you get the welfare part from?

[Syt]

[Tamas]

She did seem to think she can just come back and be a welfare mother:

The ITV News security editor, Rohit Kachroo, showed her a copy of the letter at the Syria refugee camp where she is being held.

She said of the letter: "It's kind of heart-breaking to read. My family made it sound like it would be a lot easier for me to come back to the UK when I was speaking to them in Baghouz. It's kind of hard to swallow.

"I heard that other people are being sent back to Britain so I don't know why my case is any different to other people, or is it just because I was on the news four years ago?" she said.

"Another option I might try with my family is my husband is from Holland and he has family in Holland. Maybe I can ask for citizenship in Holland. If he gets sent back to prison in Holland I can just wait for him while he is in prison.

Where do you get the welfare part from?

Well its not important. She was just mentioning that he wants to go back to the UK so her kid would get a good care.

[The Larch]

She did seem to think she can just come back and be a welfare mother:

The ITV News security editor, Rohit Kachroo, showed her a copy of the letter at the Syria refugee camp where she is being held.

She said of the letter: "It's kind of heart-breaking to read. My family made it sound like it would be a lot easier for me to come back to the UK when I was speaking to them in Baghouz. It's kind of hard to swallow.

"I heard that other people are being sent back to Britain so I don't know why my case is any different to other people, or is it just because I was on the news four years ago?" she said.

"Another option I might try with my family is my husband is from Holland and he has family in Holland. Maybe I can ask for citizenship in Holland. If he gets sent back to prison in Holland I can just wait for him while he is in prison.

Where do you get the welfare part from?

Well its not important. She was just mentioning that he wants to go back to the UK so her kid would get a good care.

You'd do well to keep your knee from jerking, glass houses, stones and all that.

[Tamas]

I apologise for having unfounded negative assumptions about an ISIS supporter.

[The Larch]

I apologise for having unfounded negative assumptions about an ISIS supporter.

It's not about that and you know it.

[Tamas]

I apologise for having unfounded negative assumptions about an ISIS supporter.

It's not about that and you know it.

I honestly don't know what's the issue. She willingly went from the UK to be islamist housewife and now the sole reason she wants to return is to avoid her third kid dying of malnutrition, and I made the assumption that she is still not keen on dropping the islamist way of life, which pretty much means she'd be not too keen on taking a job. It is quite beside the point whether she does or doesn't but I don't get it why this is such a sore point for you.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The girl's situation is murkier than that, I believe. I don't think it's been confirmed if she has Bangladeshi citizenship, only that the British government claims that, because she's of Bangladeshi heritage she can get citizenship there, so they're not making her stateless, which I believe is forbidden by international law, so they're grasping at a potentiality rather than a reality.

In any case she apparently has zero personal connection to Bangladesh, as she was born in the UK and has never been to Bangladesh. Then there's the fact that she had a baby while she still had British citizenship, so I don't know if the baby would be British in that case and she could get to stay with him in the UK even if she's not a British citizen. On top of that is the fact that she went to Syria when she was 15, a minor, so it could be debatable to which degree she'd responsible for her actions in that situation.

In any case, my gut feeling in this case is that the British government decision has acted in a really shitty way. Proper thing, IMO, would be to repatriate her, put her on trial for whatever charge applies (aiding and abetting the enemy, treason, whatever), with the caveat that she was a minor at the time and make sure that the kid is properly taken care of by family or social services. Stripping her citizenship and washing its hands is like dereliction of duty, you just can't get rid of a troublesome citizenship by resorting to this kind of stuff. If she's your citizen and is liable to anything, take care of the situation yourself, don't dump it on others or create a legal mess that will entangle you for a while. If UK law allows for the removal of citizenship, my opinion is that it should be decided by a judge, not by a government minister, and after proper legal procedures, not by decree. Can somebody clarify who in the UK has the legal power to award or rescind citizenship?

TBF, I haven't read any of her interviews or read her opinions, so I have no idea to which degree her lack of remorse would affect all this or what's her degree of loyalty to ISIS, but in any case I think that's a bit besides the point.

I was going to post my opinion but you have done it for me. Thanks the Larch 

[The Larch]

I apologise for having unfounded negative assumptions about an ISIS supporter.

It's not about that and you know it.

I honestly don't know what's the issue. She willingly went from the UK to be islamist housewife and now the sole reason she wants to return is to avoid her third kid dying of malnutrition, and I made the assumption that she is still not keen on dropping the islamist way of life, which pretty much means she'd be not too keen on taking a job. It is quite beside the point whether she does or doesn't but I don't get it why this is such a sore point for you.

If you don't see the issue...it's worrisome. For somebody who has expressed worry about the rise of xenophobia in the UK after Brexit and how it can affect you and others to so gratuituosly drop a xenophobic jab as if it's no big deal shows you're not exactly free of sin either. There's plenty of ammunition to be lobbed at this person without having to resort to an accusation that has been aimed at inmigrants for ages. Attack her for her sympathy to ISIS and terrorism all day long, but there's no need to go piling accusations of exploiting welfare on top.

[The Larch]

The girl's situation is murkier than that, I believe. I don't think it's been confirmed if she has Bangladeshi citizenship, only that the British government claims that, because she's of Bangladeshi heritage she can get citizenship there, so they're not making her stateless, which I believe is forbidden by international law, so they're grasping at a potentiality rather than a reality.

In any case she apparently has zero personal connection to Bangladesh, as she was born in the UK and has never been to Bangladesh. Then there's the fact that she had a baby while she still had British citizenship, so I don't know if the baby would be British in that case and she could get to stay with him in the UK even if she's not a British citizen. On top of that is the fact that she went to Syria when she was 15, a minor, so it could be debatable to which degree she'd responsible for her actions in that situation.

In any case, my gut feeling in this case is that the British government decision has acted in a really shitty way. Proper thing, IMO, would be to repatriate her, put her on trial for whatever charge applies (aiding and abetting the enemy, treason, whatever), with the caveat that she was a minor at the time and make sure that the kid is properly taken care of by family or social services. Stripping her citizenship and washing its hands is like dereliction of duty, you just can't get rid of a troublesome citizenship by resorting to this kind of stuff. If she's your citizen and is liable to anything, take care of the situation yourself, don't dump it on others or create a legal mess that will entangle you for a while. If UK law allows for the removal of citizenship, my opinion is that it should be decided by a judge, not by a government minister, and after proper legal procedures, not by decree. Can somebody clarify who in the UK has the legal power to award or rescind citizenship?

TBF, I haven't read any of her interviews or read her opinions, so I have no idea to which degree her lack of remorse would affect all this or what's her degree of loyalty to ISIS, but in any case I think that's a bit besides the point.

I was going to post my opinion but you have done it for me. Thanks the Larch 

Feel free to further explain anything, I'm operating basically on principle because I only know the basics of the case. 

[dps]

Well its not important. She was just mentioning that he wants to go back to the UK so her kid would get a good care.

I'm not sure that I'd automatically equate wanting make sure that one's child gets good care with going on welfare.  For all we know her family is loaded.

[Tamas]

If you don't see the issue...it's worrisome. For somebody who has expressed worry about the rise of xenophobia in the UK after Brexit and how it can affect you and others to so gratuituosly drop a xenophobic jab as if it's no big deal shows you're not exactly free of sin either. There's plenty of ammunition to be lobbed at this person without having to resort to an accusation that has been aimed at inmigrants for ages. Attack her for her sympathy to ISIS and terrorism all day long, but there's no need to go piling accusations of exploiting welfare on top.

She is not an immigrant.

[Tamas]

I guess the whole thing is a bit right back at ya for declaring her an immigrant due to skin colour and/or religion.

[The Larch]

If you don't see the issue...it's worrisome. For somebody who has expressed worry about the rise of xenophobia in the UK after Brexit and how it can affect you and others to so gratuituosly drop a xenophobic jab as if it's no big deal shows you're not exactly free of sin either. There's plenty of ammunition to be lobbed at this person without having to resort to an accusation that has been aimed at inmigrants for ages. Attack her for her sympathy to ISIS and terrorism all day long, but there's no need to go piling accusations of exploiting welfare on top.

She is not an immigrant.

I said it's an accusation that has been aimed at inmigrants, not that she herself is one.

Edit: To be precise, if there's a need for labeling, she'd be what in Germanic countries call "person with foreign background", or somesuch. A 2nd generation inmigrant, if you wish, although that's not a label I'm super comfortable with. In my book, if you're a citizen, you're a citizen, no matter if your family has been in the country for generations or you just got the papers.