The Off Topic Topic

[garbon]

It is impossible to estimate what proportion of people living in Roman Britain were from ethnic minorities

<50%

Glad even in Sweden you are able to figure out what the word 'minority' means.

[The Brain]

What was the majority ethnicity in Roman Britain btw? Non-rhetorical.

[Admiral Yi]

OK, you can stretch it and say the dark dude in the cartoon is Berber and not Kunte Kinte, but are there recorded instances of Berbers rising to the patrician class?

[The Brain]

Beard should know that Lollius is a joke name.

[The Brain]

OK, you can stretch it and say the dark dude in the cartoon is Berber and not Kunte Kinte, but are there recorded instances of Berbers rising to the patrician class?

Is he a patrician?

Generally speaking I would say that the historical record from antiquity is so spotty that unless you're talking emperors and similar non-documentation means little.

[garbon]

OK, you can stretch it and say the dark dude in the cartoon is Berber and not Kunte Kinte, but are there recorded instances of Berbers rising to the patrician class?

Here's what's been reported in Britain the past decade.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/evidence-of-upper-class-africans-living-in-roman-york-1914553.html

Evidence of 'Upper Class' Africans Living in Roman York

Using the latest techniques in forensic archaeology, the University of Reading has revealed a new image of multi-cultural Roman Britain. New research demonstrates that 4th century AD York had individuals of North African descent moving in the highest social circles.



The research conducted by the University of Reading's Department of Archaeology used modern forensic ancestry assessment and isotope (oxygen and strontium) analysis of Romano-British skeletal remains such as the 'Ivory Bangle Lady', in conjunction with evidence from grave goods buried with her.



The ancestry assessment suggests a mixture of 'black' and 'white' ancestral traits and the isotope signature indicates that she may have come from somewhere slightly warmer than the UK.



Taken together with the evidence of an unusual burial rite and grave goods, the evidence all points to the Bangle Lady's high status in Roman York. It seems likely that she is of North African descent, and may have migrated to York from somewhere warmer, possibly the Mediterranean.



Dr Hella Eckardt, Senior Lecturer at the University of Reading, said: "Multi-cultural Britain is not just a phenomenon of more modern times. Analysis of the 'Ivory Bangle Lady', and others like her, contradicts common popular assumptions about the makeup of Roman-British populations as well as the view that African immigrants in Roman Britain were of low status, male and likely to have been slaves."



The research helps paint a picture of a Roman York - or Eboracum as it was known - that was hugely diverse and which included among its population, men, women and children of high status from Romanised North Africa and elsewhere in the Mediterranean.



Eboracum was both an imperial fortress (it was the last base of the famous Ninth Legion) and civilian settlement, and ultimately became the capital of Britannia Inferior. York was also visited by two Emperors, the North-African-born Emperor Septimius Severus, and later Constantius I (both of whom died in York). All these factors provide potential circumstances for immigration to York, and for the foundation of a multicultural and diverse community.



"To date, we have had to rely on evidence of such foreigners in Roman Britain from inscriptions. However, by analysing the facial features of the Ivory Bangle Lady and measuring her skull compared to reference populations, analysing the chemical signature of the food and drink she consumed, as well as evaluating the evidence from the burial site, we are now able to establish a clear profile of her ancestry and social status," adds Dr Eckardt.



The Bangle Lady was a high status young woman who was buried in Sycamore Terrace, York. Dated to the second half of the fourth century, her grave contains jet and elephant ivory bracelets, earrings, pendants, beads, a blue glass jug and a glass mirror. The most famous object from this burial is a rectangular openwork mount of bone, possibly from an unrecorded wooden casket, which reads "Hail, sister, may you live in God", signalling possible Christian beliefs.



The research was funded by the AHRC and conducted by the University of Reading's Department of Archaeology, working with the Yorkshire Museum's collections. The museum will open in August 2010 following a major £2 million refurbishment. The skeleton and grave goods will be part of the museum's exhibition entitled Roman York: Meet the People of the Empire, which aims to show Roman York in a new, cosmopolitan light, with inhabitants from Africa, Spain, France and every corner of the vast Roman Empire.

[Admiral Yi]

Is he a patrician?

Unless Britain was an Imperial province (?) he would have to be to be governor.

[Tamas]

Sorry. Had no idea Algerians living under Roman rule cca 193AD were black. My bad.

[Tamas]

And my main problem is that we should not strive for a society where we must include all skin colours in historic drawings with the same proportion of numbers as they are in our current society.
That doesn't lead to a society where skin colour doesn't matter, that leads to a society where skin colour is all-important for identity.

[garbon]

And my main problem is that we should not strive for a society where we must include all skin colours in historic drawings with the same proportion of numbers as they are in our current society.
That doesn't lead to a society where skin colour doesn't matter, that leads to a society where skin colour is all-important for identity.

You are an ugly fuck, aren't you? Just as the people that you 'supposedly' disliked who went apeshit over the cartoon.

[merithyn]

And my main problem is that we should not strive for a society where we must include all skin colours in historic drawings with the same proportion of numbers as they are in our current society.
That doesn't lead to a society where skin colour doesn't matter, that leads to a society where skin colour is all-important for identity.

No, but we absolutely should do away with the white-washed history that is presented in everyday society now.

There's a wonderful blog that shows that black people were not so hidden as we've been led to believe. http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/

Beyond that, as studies have evolved and our understanding of race during early western history has increased, it's become more obvious that the African slave trade created a distinction that was rarely invoked prior to that time.

[garbon]

And my main problem is that we should not strive for a society where we must include all skin colours in historic drawings with the same proportion of numbers as they are in our current society.
That doesn't lead to a society where skin colour doesn't matter, that leads to a society where skin colour is all-important for identity.

"I want to be in a society where skin colour doesn't matter so to advance that goal, I'm going to complain about skin colour representation in a 6 minute cartoon"



On a different note, man, people can be tiring. Apparently this cartoon was first debuted in 2014 and was a 60 minute cartoon about people in Britain from the Stone Age to the Normans. One segment was this Roman segment with this darker skinned family. BBC republished it in December and a couple week ago Infowars kicked off about it. Compelling stuff.

[CountDeMoney]

And my main problem is that we should not strive for a society where we must include all skin colours in historic drawings with the same proportion of numbers as they are in our current society.
That doesn't lead to a society where skin colour doesn't matter, that leads to a society where skin colour is all-important for identity.

The only person with the hangup about it is you.  Maybe derniggerhater, but that wouldn't be surprising, he segregates his Skittles.

All the more hilarious coming from a goofy ass Eastern European mud duck, though.  #BramStokersBeetula

[Admiral Yi]

And me.

[11B4V]

Yea, I don't like white folk.