The Off Topic Topic

[crazy canuck]

If she has no talent, what is the explanation for her having so many fans for so long?

Good marketing, good manager, good looks, good health.  Mostly, she seems serious though.  She avoided going on a drug binge and she hasn't struggled with mental health issues.

Talent, she has no more, no less than the average pop star in the last 20 years, I think.  Does she write all her songs or someone else write for her?  Most pop stars have people writing their songs.  She certainly wrote a few personal ones, but I'm not sure she wrote all of them + the music.

It's pretty easy to see who wrote her songs-just look at the credits.  To save you the trouble, it was her.

[Sheilbh]

All fair - still think it's weird how a paper of record published a piece speculating about her sexuality. Especially one based on her art. Which contains "signals"/something she is communicating rather than something we are reading/interpreting.

Feels like a fair bit going on there which I find a bit weird. Have a bit of a theory that art kind of swings between content and form. 18th and 20th century big on form, 19th on content and that we're in a bit of a swing to content again and this all seems of a piece with that - almost certainly nonsense though

Edit: Also again just the weird parasocial thing that the NYT thought this was okay to publish blows my mind

[The Brain]

It's the paper of record sexu-speculation.

[Tamas]

If CC says she writes her songs I believe him but I am fairly certain there are shadow writers in the business so not getting listed in the credits isn't necessarily proof.

[celedhring]

I don't care much for Swift's music but she comes across as extremely smart in the way she's managed her career - and I don't mean this in a cynical way. Few artists can maintain this level of relevance across two decades.

I think when she re-recorded her older albums so her old publisher didn't get a dime from them was an awesome fuck you to the industry. It's easier when you're super successful and famous like her, but I'm all for artist independence. I feel we haven't fully tapped how digital distribution makes the major labels increasingly superfluous.

[garbon]

I think when she re-recorded her older albums so her old publisher didn't get a dime from them was an awesome fuck you to the industry. It's easier when you're super successful and famous like her, but I'm all for artist independence. I feel we haven't fully tapped how digital distribution makes the major labels increasingly superfluous.

But more of an amazing cash grab.

[celedhring]

I think when she re-recorded her older albums so her old publisher didn't get a dime from them was an awesome fuck you to the industry. It's easier when you're super successful and famous like her, but I'm all for artist independence. I feel we haven't fully tapped how digital distribution makes the major labels increasingly superfluous.

But more of an amazing cash grab.

Sure. Better her than some shitty PE firm though.

Again, stuff like this can hopefully lead the way so more artists can in the near future take significant ownership of her own work. Record label contracts are really shitty.

[garbon]

If CC says she writes her songs I believe him but I am fairly certain there are shadow writers in the business so not getting listed in the credits isn't necessarily proof.

If you look up a few of her albums on wiki, you'll see she is listed as a songwriter on all of the tracks - which is unusual for a pop star. You will also see that the majority also have a co-writer.

[viper37]

If she has no talent, what is the explanation for her having so many fans for so long?

Good marketing, good manager, good looks, good health.  Mostly, she seems serious though.  She avoided going on a drug binge and she hasn't struggled with mental health issues.

Talent, she has no more, no less than the average pop star in the last 20 years, I think.  Does she write all her songs or someone else write for her?  Most pop stars have people writing their songs.  She certainly wrote a few personal ones, but I'm not sure she wrote all of them + the music.

It's pretty easy to see who wrote her songs-just look at the credits.  To save you the trouble, it was her.

Ok, so, better than the average pop stars.

[Tamas]

As I said I am not doubting that, just mentioning the shadow writer thing because I am assuming that means you are free to claim credit for what the shadow-writer wrote, meaning what's on the credits isn't a guarantee. But I could be wrong, I have never really cared about this stuff.

[garbon]

I think when she re-recorded her older albums so her old publisher didn't get a dime from them was an awesome fuck you to the industry. It's easier when you're super successful and famous like her, but I'm all for artist independence. I feel we haven't fully tapped how digital distribution makes the major labels increasingly superfluous.

But more of an amazing cash grab.

Sure. Better her than some shitty PE firm though.

Again, stuff like this can hopefully lead the way so more artists can in the near future take significant ownership of her own work. Record label contracts are really shitty.

Maybe, though your added paragraph is the qualifier I had in mind when I first read your post.

If it has an impact on what other artists can do to maintain rights, cool. But in the absence of that, it feels more like plan of a near to being/now is billionaire dressing up a play for more money in a gratifying emotional appeal for fans.

[Josquius]

I point out that the fact that you just heard about her 10 years ago does not mean that she wasn't well-known to the world before that.  It's kind of like when Yi didn't know who the weeknd was.

Edit just did a quick check to see whether she was not known in the UK and it turns out she had a number one album topping the UK charts 12 years ago. I think that was her fourth album by that point.

So really, unless you were living under a rock, or not listening to the radio you would've heard of her.

I don't exactly have it marked in my calendar the day I first heard of her. I meant 10 years in a vague that sort of timespan sense- and 12 years ago would fall into this.

And I didn't say she has no talent. Merely there's far more talented people out there who aren't half as famous.

Who are some musicians who are far more talented but aren't half as famous, Jos?

Such a huge list. Sticking just to female solo musician of some level of fame but not on the same level of megastardom sorts; Regina Spektor, KT Tunstall, PJ Harvey, Kate Nash, Annika Norlin... That's just what comes right to mind.

I don't care much for Swift's music but she comes across as extremely smart in the way she's managed her career - and I don't mean this in a cynical way. Few artists can maintain this level of relevance across two decades.

I think when she re-recorded her older albums so her old publisher didn't get a dime from them was an awesome fuck you to the industry. It's easier when you're super successful and famous like her, but I'm all for artist independence. I feel we haven't fully tapped how digital distribution makes the major labels increasingly superfluous.

Agreed on the fuck you.
But not sure I'd agree on not grasping how digital distribution makes labels superfluous. Go back 15 years or so and this was a real hot topic, but in more recent years they have adapted and found a new vital parasite role.
In theory anyone can release their music out into the world and become big off the back of their own talent...in practice its the major labels that offer the funding for people to go full time before they've made a penny from the music and the promotion to get to a stage where they're profitable.
I always found it curious that rock stardom is seen as this really big achievement on a par with being a Hollywood actor or top football player...but then you see below the absolute top tier even moderately successful artists are working a basic 9 to 5 with the music as more of a side gig.

Incidentally a kind of creepy but curious game to play- check linkedin for popular artists. I did this a while ago and found quite a lot of people from really highly billed bands of a decade ago today toiling away, often in roles not too different to mine (which yes, makes me sort of jealous that they had this awesome different experience but still landed on their feet).

[crazy canuck]

If CC says she writes her songs I believe him but I am fairly certain there are shadow writers in the business so not getting listed in the credits isn't necessarily proof.

She started writing her own stuff at a young age. Long before she had the financial resources to pay shadow writers to compensate them for the lack of residuals they would've received if they had been officially credited. Now that she has those financial resources she might do that, but everything else she does in her life in terms of, trying to elevate others, is not consistent with your conspiracy theory.

[FunkMonk]

I like Taylor and I think she is good.

[Barrister]

As I said I am not doubting that, just mentioning the shadow writer thing because I am assuming that means you are free to claim credit for what the shadow-writer wrote, meaning what's on the credits isn't a guarantee. But I could be wrong, I have never really cared about this stuff.

As I understand it getting a writing credit (in particular on a song to be sung by a huge star like Taylor Swift) is financially a big deal, so it's unlikely she can get that credit without a certain minimum of input on her part.