The Off Topic Topic

[The Brain]

A granduncle fought in WW1. FWIW he wasn't rich.

On purpose, or did your family have some Germans or Russians in it?

My grandfather's family were ethnic Finns from the border area, and some of his siblings lived on the Finnish side. One of his younger brothers joined the Finnish jaeger movement, where young Finns went to Germany in 1915 and got military training as the 27th Prussian Jaeger Battalion at Lockstedter Lager (Syt can tell you more). They fought on the Russian front in 1916-17 before going to Finland in 1918 to fight on the democratic side in the civil war. They then formed the hard core of the Finnish officer corps through WW2.

[Sheilbh]

Part of the reason WW1 resonates so much more in the UK than the continent may be that the other W1 nations suffered much more in WW2 than the UK, so WW2 became their great national trauma.

Yeah, it's not overshadowed by what followed. Although I think the impact shaped the way Britain fought WW2 - both at home and militarily.

Also WW2 becomes the "People's War" and the UK's founding national myth as a good war, while WW1 becomes primarily symbolic as a pointless, bloody waste of lives (again lions led by donkeys).

[Josquius]

Same or WW2. Though there's rumours/myths of my grandad's activities in the Irish War of Independence

Yeah we've definitely a story there. My great grandad deciding to take his family to the UK with certain timing and lots of rumours of dodgy IRA stuff back home.

Ww2 though my British family was involved. Enough of my uncles were out of the mines by then, and then my grandad wanted out of the mines.
On the other side to think the timing of the generations was just right to be too old and too young there.

[Jacob]

WWI has strong resonance in Canada, as it it part of the national foundation myths. The actions of the Canadian Corps at Somme and especially at Vimy are seen as pivotal in the formation of Canadian identity.

John McRae's poem In Flanders Fields is held in high regard:

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
        In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.
    If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
        In Flanders fields.

[Barrister]

Same or WW2. Though there's rumours/myths of my grandad's activities in the Irish War of Independence

That is surprising to me.  I had both grandfathers, and a great-grandfather, serve in WWII (though I think only one went overseas).

I think the great-grandfather needed the money from what I remember, as he was old enough he wouldn't have been conscripted.

[Sheilbh]

That's fair.

It's probably not a surprise that that poem is also often part of remembrance services here. Obviously we also wear poppies around armistice day.

But I think the same is true for Australia and New Zealand with ANZAC Day and the memory of Gallipoli (reporting which, much to Rupert's enormous pride, made the Murdoch family name) - and more light-heartedly ANZAC biscuits.

I'd say Dulce et Decorum Est isn't really such a presence at remembrance events (though I think it's part of Britten's War Requiem, which is). But I think it's probably been read by every person in the country at some point at school - as I say in part because it's a good poem to teach. I think it's often taught in contrast with something like In Flanders Fields or Rupert Brooke:

Dulce et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

[Sheilbh]

That is surprising to me.  I had both grandfathers, and a great-grandfather, serve in WWII (though I think only one went overseas).

I think the great-grandfather needed the money from what I remember, as he was old enough he wouldn't have been conscripted.

In part I don't really know anything about my maternal grandfather's side of the family. His dad might have been in one or other of the wars. With the other side of my mum's family, they were basically crofters in the Isle of Man and they had seven daughters So nothing in the war - but maybe some flirting with Germany POWs

On my dad's side it's just age I think. Too young for WW1, too old for WW2 - but, if we believe them, old enough to be involved in the War of Independence and Civil War. Although there's cousins on that side of the family who are Fianna Fail politicians right back to the days of de Valera so there's maybe something to it given that historically that was the anti-treaty side of the Civil War.

[Iormlund]

My maternal grandpa died when I was young, so I don't know that much about him.

My paternal grandpa was an artist, which kept him away from the front-lines. He spent the Civil War drawing maps (IIRC) for the Nationalist army. He absolutely hated war as a result of his experiences. The only time I saw him get mad was when he saw us kids playing with toy soldiers.

[Grey Fox]

My maternal grandfather was born during WWII.

My paternal grandfather was born in 1900, so too young for WWI and too old for WWII. He died in the 60s so I don't know much but I expect he had older brother(s) that fought in WWI or younger that did in WWII.

[Sheilbh]

My maternal grandpa died when I was young, so I don't know that much about him.

My paternal grandpa was an artist, which kept him away from the front-lines. He spent the Civil War drawing maps (IIRC) for the Nationalist army. He absolutely hated war as a result of his experiences. The only time I saw him get mad was when he saw us kids playing with toy soldiers.

There was a thing at work where someone talked about obtaining Spanish citizenship through the route for people who left during/following the civil war.

I think she ended up coming to the UK via Lithuania but their (I want to guess grandparents) route from Spain went to the USSR in the 30s and then to China in the 40s or 50s and then back to the USSR. I can only assume Comintern apparatchiks of some type or other

[crazy canuck]

My maternal grandfather was born during WWII.

My paternal grandfather was born in 1900, so too young for WWI and too old for WWII. He died in the 60s so I don't know much but I expect he had older brother(s) that fought in WWI or younger that did in WWII.

Same in both sides of my family.

And both sides came to Canada in 1900 from Eastern Prussia and Ruthenia respectively.

Good timing

[Grey Fox]

I need to look up my maternal grand mother family. They probably fought with empire fervor. Her surname was Wallace, after all.

[Razgovory]

Passed my Driver's exam.  Now I can legally drive.

[Maladict]

Passed my Driver's exam.  Now I can legally drive.

[Jacob]

Good work Raz. No more illegal driving for you!