The Off Topic Topic

[Maladict]

It was pretty clear from the first round results that Erdogan was going to win.

Yeah. Big street celebrations just started here 

[Sheilbh]

Definitely a lot tighter thn expected and impressive from the opposition given that they're basically a fractious coalition of parties that don't agree on anything except opposition to Erdogan. I still think their choice of candidate was a bit odd/possibly a mistake - and interesting that both sides pivoted to slightly different forms of nationalism to try and capture the nationalist vote. Indeed one interesting feature analysts have flagged is the extent to which Erdogan and AKP are relying on parts of the far-right Turkish nationalist traditions to win elections now and that looks far more dominant than religious conservatives - which seems like a path the AKP will continue down.

Feels like it'll be challenging as it's not a stable basis for Erdogan's style of authoritarian politics especially as the economy is starting to tip and it feels like we're at the limits of Erdogan's economic model/ideas being sustainable.

On the other, more optimistic, hand turnout of over 80% over two rounds and a genuine opposition (indeed about half the country is viscerally opposed to Erdogan) - so for all the comparisons with Putin it still feels like Turkey and Turks are more committed to electoral politics than Russia's Potemkin opposition candidates and weak engagement.

[Duque de Bragança]

It was pretty clear from the first round results that Erdogan was going to win.

Yeah. Big street celebrations just started here 

How many pro-Erdogan votes in your area? Seems the Lyon Region (Auvergne Rhône-Alpes) is the record with 85 % pro-Erdogan votes.  or ?

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2023/05/28/election-en-turquie-dans-la-region-de-lyon-avec-les-partisans-d-erdogan_6175212_3224.html

[Maladict]

How many pro-Erdogan votes in your area? Seems the Lyon Region (Auvergne Rhône-Alpes) is the record with 85 % pro-Erdogan votes.  or ?

Looks like it's around 70%.

[Admiral Yi]

Why is there no pork in Indian food? 

[Sheilbh]

There is some - especially Goan and Keralan cuisine. I think it's anlso more common in the North-East where you have Nepali, South-East Asian and Chinese influences. Obviously most of those areas don't have as many Muslims as other bits of India as, by population, it's the third largest Muslim country in the world.

Also, a lot of Indians are basically vegetarian. I also wonder (and this is just a guess) if, in particular, the way pigs eat anything make them perceived as traditionally a bit unclean/for lower castes?

[Savonarola]

There is some - especially Goan and Keralan cuisine. I think it's anlso more common in the North-East where you have Nepali, South-East Asian and Chinese influences. Obviously most of those areas don't have as many Muslims as other bits of India as, by population, it's the third largest Muslim country in the world.

Vindaloo (a Goan dish) is traditionally made with pork.  The name is derived from Portuguese (wine and garlic) and is based on a Portuguese stew.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. There's also Goan chourico. I don't think anywhere can be colonised by Iberians for hundreds of years and not develop a pretty solid pork based repertoire

[Admiral Yi]

I guess what I'm trying to get at is did Hindus eat pork before the Mughal conquest, and if they did, what was the mechanism whereby they largely stopped.

I don't expect anyone to have a ready answer.

[Sheilbh]

Via Wiki sounds like no:

In that country they do not keep pigs and fowls, and do not sell live cattle; in the markets there are no butchers' shops and no dealers in intoxicating drink.

— Faxian, Chinese pilgrim to India (4th/5th century CE)

Obviously bit of an extreme take and coming from China so maybe just emphasising difference, but I think there's maybe something there?

Apparently not many mentions of pigs in early Hindu or Buddhist texts either. It's why I wondered about the cleanliness/caste point because from my understanding, cleanliness is a really key part of Hindu theology. I think I've read that some of the earliest religious sites in India are around ritual bathing. So I just wonder if, even if they were around, the fact that pigs will eat anything including literal rubbish might make them unclean?

[Admiral Yi]

Interesting.

Thanks.

[Duque de Bragança]

Yeah. There's also Goan chourico. I don't think anywhere can be colonised by Iberians for hundreds of years and not develop a pretty solid pork based repertoire

Obviously. 

OTOH, seems the Portuguese also brought the art of soup.

Less surprisingly, the use of beef and pork, see vindalho/vindaloo.

[Eddie Teach]

I just spent half an hour watching Asians balance themselves on a swinging rope bridge. Not a single wipeout.   

[Sheilbh]

Clashes in North Kosovo which appear to have injured several NATO KFOR peacekeepers (including at least 11 Italians) - I'd seen in the build up to thisNATO countries issuing joint statements (France, Germany, Italy, UK, US) getting more annoyed at Kosovan authorities, and read that they were impressed with Serbia's restraint so far. Suspect that's probably changed now.

[Tamas]

Clashes in North Kosovo which appear to have injured several NATO KFOR peacekeepers (including at least 11 Italians) - I'd seen in the build up to thisNATO countries issuing joint statements (France, Germany, Italy, UK, US) getting more annoyed at Kosovan authorities, and read that they were impressed with Serbia's restraint so far. Suspect that's probably changed now.

As I am reading there's rioting because the Serbs boycotted the mayoral elections in three towns (after the mayors stepped down following that whole licence plate scandal thing). So 3.47% of citizens voted (the Albanians, I assume) and shockingly they elected Albanian mayors.