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The Off Topic Topic

Started by Korea, March 10, 2009, 06:24:26 AM

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Sheilbh

And this one - useful for Ukraine (I am very much on the journalists side in terms of understanding :ph34r:):
Let's bomb Russia!

crazy canuck

The war effort needs more Volvo Tanks
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

The Minsky Moment

I haven't been following the Depp-Heard trial that carefully.  I had simply assumed that the accusations against Depp had substantial merit based on what I assumed was a very thorough review of the evidence by a British court during the Sun trial.  Last weekend I looked up that judgment out of curiosity.  I was rather surprised to see how flimsy the analysis was. 

As one example, Heard submitted sworn court papers with a very vivid accusation about Depp burning a painting and hitting her on the lip.  The story completely fell apart when the evidence was taken, and instead the hitting incident was said to occur 3 weeks later and had nothing to do with the painting.  No person other than Heard witnessed the assault.  Heard said she told her assistant about it but the assistant didn't testify (she did in the US case and apparently denied the incident).  Heard said she told her parents and indeed there was a cotemporaneous email - where Heard said Depp did not hit her.  Several photos during that time frame were introduced, none of which showed any evidence of the split lip. The judge reviewed this evidence and concluded the assault occurred. He did so as he did in multiple other instances based almost exclusively on what can at best be charitably described as a "pop psych" theory without the benefit of any expert psychological testimony.

Reading that judgment undermined my personal confidence that the Heard allegations had been thoroughly reviewed in The Sun case.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

crazy canuck

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 10, 2022, 01:22:12 PMI haven't been following the Depp-Heard trial that carefully.  I had simply assumed that the accusations against Depp had substantial merit based on what I assumed was a very thorough review of the evidence by a British court during the Sun trial.  Last weekend I looked up that judgment out of curiosity.  I was rather surprised to see how flimsy the analysis was. 

As one example, Heard submitted sworn court papers with a very vivid accusation about Depp burning a painting and hitting her on the lip.  The story completely fell apart when the evidence was taken, and instead the hitting incident was said to occur 3 weeks later and had nothing to do with the painting.  No person other than Heard witnessed the assault.  Heard said she told her assistant about it but the assistant didn't testify (she did in the US case and apparently denied the incident).  Heard said she told her parents and indeed there was a cotemporaneous email - where Heard said Depp did not hit her.  Several photos during that time frame were introduced, none of which showed any evidence of the split lip. The judge reviewed this evidence and concluded the assault occurred. He did so as he did in multiple other instances based almost exclusively on what can at best be charitably described as a "pop psych" theory without the benefit of any expert psychological testimony.

Reading that judgment undermined my personal confidence that the Heard allegations had been thoroughly reviewed in The Sun case.

Interesting, I have not been paying any attention except that I heard this second action was proceeding.  I wondered why no one had argued the was res judicata.  And your summary might provide part of the answer.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

Syt

Quote from: Sheilbh on May 10, 2022, 12:57:55 PMAnd this one - useful for Ukraine (I am very much on the journalists side in terms of understanding :ph34r:):

I saw German military experts comment on that on Twitter. They say most journalists try to understand better, and that it's a learning process. During the Cold War, people were familiar with what tank divisions are, the difference between main battle tanks, self propelled artillery and infantry fighting vehicles, but that a lot of that has atrophied since the 90s, because it wasn't needed in regular coverage anymore. Let's face it, outside of certain nerdy circles, the differentiation is not particularly clear. :P
If we want to prevent catastrophic economic and societal change we will have to radically change our climate system.

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Barrister

Quote from: crazy canuck on May 10, 2022, 01:33:43 PMInteresting, I have not been paying any attention except that I heard this second action was proceeding.  I wondered why no one had argued the was res judicata.  And your summary might provide part of the answer.

Parties are not the same.  Trial in UK was against the newspaper.  Trial in US is against Heard personally.
Quote from: crazy canuckBB's treatment is consistent with one who defends positions taken by the conservative wing of the Conservatives.

Sheilbh

Quote from: crazy canuck on May 10, 2022, 01:33:43 PMInteresting, I have not been paying any attention except that I heard this second action was proceeding.  I wondered why no one had argued the was res judicata.  And your summary might provide part of the answer.
Also isn't this between Depp and Heard? In the UK it was Depp suing the Sun/News Group and Heard was just a witness.

Separately I wasn't following but I'm 90% sure Heard's assistant did testify here. I remember seeing news about her that seemed very damaging to Heard. But I've no idea about it all to be honest I didn't and haven't followd it closely - my general impression was that it's all very messy and no-one comes out of it well.
Let's bomb Russia!

grumbler

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 10, 2022, 01:22:12 PMI haven't been following the Depp-Heard trial that carefully.  I had simply assumed that the accusations against Depp had substantial merit based on what I assumed was a very thorough review of the evidence by a British court during the Sun trial.  Last weekend I looked up that judgment out of curiosity.  I was rather surprised to see how flimsy the analysis was. 

As one example, Heard submitted sworn court papers with a very vivid accusation about Depp burning a painting and hitting her on the lip.  The story completely fell apart when the evidence was taken, and instead the hitting incident was said to occur 3 weeks later and had nothing to do with the painting.  No person other than Heard witnessed the assault.  Heard said she told her assistant about it but the assistant didn't testify (she did in the US case and apparently denied the incident).  Heard said she told her parents and indeed there was a cotemporaneous email - where Heard said Depp did not hit her.  Several photos during that time frame were introduced, none of which showed any evidence of the split lip. The judge reviewed this evidence and concluded the assault occurred. He did so as he did in multiple other instances based almost exclusively on what can at best be charitably described as a "pop psych" theory without the benefit of any expert psychological testimony.

Reading that judgment undermined my personal confidence that the Heard allegations had been thoroughly reviewed in The Sun case.

Wasn't it true, though, that the case was between Depp and the Sun (and it's editor)?  Why would the judge evaluate the "truth" of Heard's accusations except in the light of whether the Sun was reasonable in believing them?  Heard herself was not a party in the suit.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Sheilbh

Quote from: grumbler on May 10, 2022, 02:26:48 PMWasn't it true, though, that the case was between Depp and the Sun (and it's editor)?  Why would the judge evaluate the "truth" of Heard's accusations except in the light of whether the Sun was reasonable in believing them?  Heard herself was not a party in the suit.
I think they went for the statutory defence that it was substantially true - which is probably the most difficult.

But it's also probably the only one that could work. It wasn't a statement of opinion, so honest opinion would apply and I really struggle to see how they could demonstrate that it was in the public interest.

I think reasonable belief is only really relevant if your defence is public interest - that you have a reasonable belief something publishing something is in the public interest.
Let's bomb Russia!

Malthus

I just discovered there is a whole subreddit devoted to Ea-Nasir, an Iraqi copper merchant circa 1750 BC, who was (apparently) really rude and sold bad quality copper - as noted in a famous cuneiform "letter" complaining to him about these things.

It's r/reallyshittycopper

What's even more bizarre - recently, another letter was translated, apparently by mr. Ea-Nasir, reassuring some customers (including one "Mr Shorty") that some dispute or other will be resolved ...

As a lawyer, this is hilarious - that files relating to some commercial dispute are among the earliest writings preserved.

Ea-Nasir's name lives on!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nasir
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

The Larch

Quote from: Malthus on May 10, 2022, 04:38:58 PMI just discovered there is a whole subreddit devoted to Ea-Nasir, an Iraqi copper merchant circa 1750 BC, who was (apparently) really rude and sold bad quality copper - as noted in a famous cuneiform "letter" complaining to him about these things.

It's r/reallyshittycopper

What's even more bizarre - recently, another letter was translated, apparently by mr. Ea-Nasir, reassuring some customers (including one "Mr Shorty") that some dispute or other will be resolved ...

As a lawyer, this is hilarious - that files relating to some commercial dispute are among the earliest writings preserved.

Ea-Nasir's name lives on!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nasir

Yeah, it's a bit of a joke/meme in certain nerdy communities. That a shitty Sumerian merchant's name is still remembered several millenia after his time is certainly something.  :lol:

And the guy seems to have enjoyed collecting these complaints!

QuoteOther tablets have been found in the ruins believed to be Ea-nasir's dwelling. These include a letter from a man named Arbituram who complained he had not received his copper yet, while another says he was tired of receiving bad copper.

Malthus

Quote from: The Larch on May 10, 2022, 04:57:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 10, 2022, 04:38:58 PMI just discovered there is a whole subreddit devoted to Ea-Nasir, an Iraqi copper merchant circa 1750 BC, who was (apparently) really rude and sold bad quality copper - as noted in a famous cuneiform "letter" complaining to him about these things.

It's r/reallyshittycopper

What's even more bizarre - recently, another letter was translated, apparently by mr. Ea-Nasir, reassuring some customers (including one "Mr Shorty") that some dispute or other will be resolved ...

As a lawyer, this is hilarious - that files relating to some commercial dispute are among the earliest writings preserved.

Ea-Nasir's name lives on!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nasir

Yeah, it's a bit of a joke/meme in certain nerdy communities. That a shitty Sumerian merchant's name is still remembered several millenia after his time is certainly something.  :lol:

And the guy seems to have enjoyed collecting these complaints!

QuoteOther tablets have been found in the ruins believed to be Ea-nasir's dwelling. These include a letter from a man named Arbituram who complained he had not received his copper yet, while another says he was tired of receiving bad copper.

The fact that his house was abandoned and his correspondence preserved by the drifting sand is interesting - maybe "Mr. Shorty" paid him a little visit ...  :ph34r:
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

The Larch

Quote from: Malthus on May 10, 2022, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: The Larch on May 10, 2022, 04:57:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 10, 2022, 04:38:58 PMI just discovered there is a whole subreddit devoted to Ea-Nasir, an Iraqi copper merchant circa 1750 BC, who was (apparently) really rude and sold bad quality copper - as noted in a famous cuneiform "letter" complaining to him about these things.

It's r/reallyshittycopper

What's even more bizarre - recently, another letter was translated, apparently by mr. Ea-Nasir, reassuring some customers (including one "Mr Shorty") that some dispute or other will be resolved ...

As a lawyer, this is hilarious - that files relating to some commercial dispute are among the earliest writings preserved.

Ea-Nasir's name lives on!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nasir

Yeah, it's a bit of a joke/meme in certain nerdy communities. That a shitty Sumerian merchant's name is still remembered several millenia after his time is certainly something.  :lol:

And the guy seems to have enjoyed collecting these complaints!

QuoteOther tablets have been found in the ruins believed to be Ea-nasir's dwelling. These include a letter from a man named Arbituram who complained he had not received his copper yet, while another says he was tired of receiving bad copper.

The fact that his house was abandoned and his correspondence preserved by the drifting sand is interesting - maybe "Mr. Shorty" paid him a little visit ...  :ph34r:

Fate wanted his name to be remembered for eternity.  :ph34r:

grumbler

Quote from: The Larch on May 10, 2022, 06:07:04 PMFate wanted his name to be remembered for eternity.  :ph34r:

Fate didn't strike me as the kind of poster who cared about this kind of thing.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

ulmont