The Off Topic Topic

[The Larch]

What's a London/Aussie/Kiwi style coffee shop? 

And yeah, Italians are really particular about their coffee. I believe Starbucks has only opened its first location there last year or so. Same reason why Pizza Hut and Domino's have never been able to establish themselves over there.

Yeah - it's actually similar in Australia and New Zealand. I think Starbucks went big there because they're just like America and just lost a shedload of money because there's too much good coffee competition. I think they've now closed about 80% of their branches. They had a shedload of Greek and Italian migrants in the post-war era who I think launched their coffee culture and then they've just been playing with it for years and now they've moved here and transferred it to us.

I think that's the biggest difference with Italy is they tend to be quite creative about what a coffee should taste like because they don't have the tradition behind them. It's a bit like American craft beers v, say, Belgium or Germany. Both are wonderful and have their place in the world - but in London at the minute our cafes are far more influenced by the Aussies and Kiwis (because they worked in them for decades and then started opening their own).

Basically it's all espresso based though. They like variety in beans - so you won't get the classic Illy or whatever - and will normally go for a light roast, small batch all of that stuff (at a higher price). So the taste of an espresso varies a lot from shop to shop. They also tend to be super precise about like the size of the shot/grind etc. Making coffee, they always do ristretto as the standard espresso - often people complain it's too bitter as an espresso, but that's deliberate. Similarly they really hate overheating the milk (which is qutie common in Italy) but that leads to people complaining their coffee isn't hot enough which I never understand but....

Can't say that I'm familiar with all of that, but I'd say that a visit to London is long overdue, so I'll try to research the topic as soon as international travel is somehow back to normal.

For the record, I'd say that British coffee quality started improving from its dire situation with the introduction of the large chain coffee shops like Caffé Nero and Costa Coffee and the like, which basically mimicked Italian style coffee culture AFAIK. I guess this Aussie/Kiwi stuff is the next evolution of that, right?

[celedhring]

Anyone ever seen Geography Now's youtube videos?
Every episode they basically talk about a country of the world. They're going in alphabetical order. They've just reached....Serbia.
Boy are those comments sections a hoot. It seems every single person in the country is a conspiracy theory loving nationalist. Apparently America/NATO invaded Kosovo because it wanted a military base there.
Just...forget about Greece and Hungary as NATO members in the region...and Bulgaria and Romania being soon to join... and other countries in the area actively lobbying for membership.

I saw someone recently post a thread about a leading Serbian historian/conspiracy theorist. And it was kind of hilarious - basically he posited that Serbia was the origin of all major Indo-European civilisations (except Albanians).

(Apologies to my balkanic friends  )

[Sheilbh]

Can't say that I'm familiar with all of that, but I'd say that a visit to London is long overdue, so I'll try to research the topic as soon as international travel is somehow back to normal.

For the record, I'd say that British coffee quality started improving from its dire situation with the introduction of the large chain coffee shops like Caffé Nero and Costa Coffee and the like, which basically mimicked Italian style coffee culture AFAIK. I guess this Aussie/Kiwi stuff is the next evolution of that, right?

Ha! Well I'll be happy to give you some tips or buy you an Aussie coffee when you come over.

Agreed. UK coffee quality was horrendous until Starbucks arrived and that was followed by the other chains. There's always been a few exceptions - London and Glasgow have always had decent Italian coffees.

In London there's always been Monmouth Coffee who've been around since the late 70s - buying and roasting their own beans (and now supplying lots of other coffees) and making something really excellent. And they've been like a seeding ground of great cafes loads and loads who have really changed our food and drink scene worked at or managed Monmouth (it's a bit like a kitchen producing loads of chefs who go on to great things elsewhere) - Fernandez and Wells, Flat White, Workshop, Prufrock Coffee I think all started with baristas at Monmouth.

But yeah we have a lot of Antipodeans who come over on a working visa to travel around Europe. Loads of them started working in cafes in London and just upping the game of those places and a lot then went on to open their own shops. I'd say most neighbourhoods in London has at least one coffee shop and sometimes many that are basically doing Aussie/Kiwi style coffee rather than traditional caff coffee.

[celedhring]

Costa Coffee has began expanding in Spain, it has a few coffee shops in Barcelona and I favor it over Starbucks when it comes to "chain coffee". Plus the establishments are pretty comfortable when I want to spend an afternoon working outside home.

[The Larch]

Can't say that I'm familiar with all of that, but I'd say that a visit to London is long overdue, so I'll try to research the topic as soon as international travel is somehow back to normal.

For the record, I'd say that British coffee quality started improving from its dire situation with the introduction of the large chain coffee shops like Caffé Nero and Costa Coffee and the like, which basically mimicked Italian style coffee culture AFAIK. I guess this Aussie/Kiwi stuff is the next evolution of that, right?

Ha! Well I'll be happy to give you some tips or buy you an Aussie coffee when you come over.

I'll bring you the Tito mug that I owe you, I've been keeping it at home for some years already. 

[Tamas]

Anyone ever seen Geography Now's youtube videos?
Every episode they basically talk about a country of the world. They're going in alphabetical order. They've just reached....Serbia.
Boy are those comments sections a hoot. It seems every single person in the country is a conspiracy theory loving nationalist. Apparently America/NATO invaded Kosovo because it wanted a military base there.
Just...forget about Greece and Hungary as NATO members in the region...and Bulgaria and Romania being soon to join... and other countries in the area actively lobbying for membership.

I saw someone recently post a thread about a leading Serbian historian/conspiracy theorist. And it was kind of hilarious - basically he posited that Serbia was the origin of all major Indo-European civilisations (except Albanians).

There are whackos like that in Hungary as well.

My personal favourite was a session of one of the more popular "historians" of those circles (in effect a conman) that I watched into on Youtube, where he "proves" how Jesus was a Parthian prince and ergo Hungarian (he handled the Parthians=Hungarians thin as self-evident).


The latest much milder and much more scientific off-shoot of these is a theory from a few actual scholars that what we Magyars speak isn't a modern version of the Magyar language, but rather the Avar one. But I have forgotten the details.

[Sheilbh]

Costa Coffee has began expanding in Spain, it has a few coffee shops in Barcelona and I favor it over Starbucks when it comes to "chain coffee". Plus the establishments are pretty comfortable when I want to spend an afternoon working outside home.

I like Costa of the chains - not least because they pay their taxes in the UK unlike Starbucks

[Josquius]

Anyone ever seen Geography Now's youtube videos?
Every episode they basically talk about a country of the world. They're going in alphabetical order. They've just reached....Serbia.
Boy are those comments sections a hoot. It seems every single person in the country is a conspiracy theory loving nationalist. Apparently America/NATO invaded Kosovo because it wanted a military base there.
Just...forget about Greece and Hungary as NATO members in the region...and Bulgaria and Romania being soon to join... and other countries in the area actively lobbying for membership.

You only discover Balkantards now? 

I do follow Geography Now, and am quite familiar with Serbia. It'll be a "fun" episode for sure. They guy always tries to sugarcoat everything and be as uncontroversial as possible, so let's see how he fares there.

Maybe I just wasn't paying attention but they weren't an issue with past countries. The Albanians are also being very well behaved.

Anyone ever seen Geography Now's youtube videos?
Every episode they basically talk about a country of the world. They're going in alphabetical order. They've just reached....Serbia.
Boy are those comments sections a hoot. It seems every single person in the country is a conspiracy theory loving nationalist. Apparently America/NATO invaded Kosovo because it wanted a military base there.
Just...forget about Greece and Hungary as NATO members in the region...and Bulgaria and Romania being soon to join... and other countries in the area actively lobbying for membership.

I saw someone recently post a thread about a leading Serbian historian/conspiracy theorist. And it was kind of hilarious - basically he posited that Serbia was the origin of all major Indo-European civilisations (except Albanians).

Who are actually North Africans?

[The Larch]

Anyone ever seen Geography Now's youtube videos?
Every episode they basically talk about a country of the world. They're going in alphabetical order. They've just reached....Serbia.
Boy are those comments sections a hoot. It seems every single person in the country is a conspiracy theory loving nationalist. Apparently America/NATO invaded Kosovo because it wanted a military base there.
Just...forget about Greece and Hungary as NATO members in the region...and Bulgaria and Romania being soon to join... and other countries in the area actively lobbying for membership.

I saw someone recently post a thread about a leading Serbian historian/conspiracy theorist. And it was kind of hilarious - basically he posited that Serbia was the origin of all major Indo-European civilisations (except Albanians).

There are whackos like that in Hungary as well.

My personal favourite was a session of one of the more popular "historians" of those circles (in effect a conman) that I watched into on Youtube, where he "proves" how Jesus was a Parthian prince and ergo Hungarian (he handled the Parthians=Hungarians thin as self-evident).


The latest much milder and much more scientific off-shoot of these is a theory from a few actual scholars that what we Magyars speak isn't a modern version of the Magyar language, but rather the Avar one. But I have forgotten the details.

I'd say that it's contemporary Hungarian nationalism that is more harmful than the nationalism that harkens back to a more or less mythical past. I mean, it's been a century since Trianon and you guys haven't yet gotten over it. 

[Tamas]

Anyone ever seen Geography Now's youtube videos?
Every episode they basically talk about a country of the world. They're going in alphabetical order. They've just reached....Serbia.
Boy are those comments sections a hoot. It seems every single person in the country is a conspiracy theory loving nationalist. Apparently America/NATO invaded Kosovo because it wanted a military base there.
Just...forget about Greece and Hungary as NATO members in the region...and Bulgaria and Romania being soon to join... and other countries in the area actively lobbying for membership.

I saw someone recently post a thread about a leading Serbian historian/conspiracy theorist. And it was kind of hilarious - basically he posited that Serbia was the origin of all major Indo-European civilisations (except Albanians).

There are whackos like that in Hungary as well.

My personal favourite was a session of one of the more popular "historians" of those circles (in effect a conman) that I watched into on Youtube, where he "proves" how Jesus was a Parthian prince and ergo Hungarian (he handled the Parthians=Hungarians thin as self-evident).


The latest much milder and much more scientific off-shoot of these is a theory from a few actual scholars that what we Magyars speak isn't a modern version of the Magyar language, but rather the Avar one. But I have forgotten the details.

I'd say that it's contemporary Hungarian nationalism that is more harmful than the nationalism that harkens back to a more or less mythical past. I mean, it's been a century since Trianon and you guys haven't yet gotten over it. 

Well three things.

First of all the audience for Trianon-revoking and loony ancestry theories are in an almost perfect overlap.

Secondly, IMHO Trianon is steadily falling out of national attention. Especially since the radicals have found Muslim immigration as a target of hate and frustration.  No significant portion of the population cares about it more than empty platitudes.

Thirdly, I don't think it is that odd  that we are still in the process of getting over it. If in 1920 the UK would have been forcefully dissolved, with Scotland getting Newcastle and everything north of it, Ireland reunited, and Wales receiving Cornwall, we would still not hear the end of it from the English. It was a massive national shock that required a complete retooling of the national economic and political setup, not to mention countless personal dramas. Of course it takes a few generations to forget it.

[Josquius]

If in 1920 the UK would have been forcefully dissolved, with Scotland getting Newcastle and everything north of it, Ireland reunited, and Wales receiving Cornwall, we would still not hear the end of it from the English. It was a massive national shock that required a complete retooling of the national economic and political setup, not to mention countless personal dramas. Of course it takes a few generations to forget it.

...Can we do this please?

[The Larch]

Thirdly, I don't think it is that odd  that we are still in the process of getting over it. If in 1920 the UK would have been forcefully dissolved, with Scotland getting Newcastle and everything north of it, Ireland reunited, and Wales receiving Cornwall, we would still not hear the end of it from the English. It was a massive national shock that required a complete retooling of the national economic and political setup, not to mention countless personal dramas. Of course it takes a few generations to forget it.

So I was right, a century has passed and you guys are not yet over it. 

[Tamas]

Thirdly, I don't think it is that odd  that we are still in the process of getting over it. If in 1920 the UK would have been forcefully dissolved, with Scotland getting Newcastle and everything north of it, Ireland reunited, and Wales receiving Cornwall, we would still not hear the end of it from the English. It was a massive national shock that required a complete retooling of the national economic and political setup, not to mention countless personal dramas. Of course it takes a few generations to forget it.

So I was right, a century has passed and you guys are not yet over it. 

Hey, if Catalonia and Basque-land ends up forcefully taken from Spain plus they receive some of like third of the ethnic Spanish population as booty, we can run the clock and see how quickly Spaniards will get over it.

[The Larch]

Thirdly, I don't think it is that odd  that we are still in the process of getting over it. If in 1920 the UK would have been forcefully dissolved, with Scotland getting Newcastle and everything north of it, Ireland reunited, and Wales receiving Cornwall, we would still not hear the end of it from the English. It was a massive national shock that required a complete retooling of the national economic and political setup, not to mention countless personal dramas. Of course it takes a few generations to forget it.

So I was right, a century has passed and you guys are not yet over it. 

Hey, if Catalonia and Basque-land ends up forcefully taken from Spain plus they receive some of like third of the ethnic Spanish population as booty, we can run the clock and see how quickly Spaniards will get over it.

Do you see us railing against the US for taking Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines back in 1898? 

[Duque de Bragança]

Anyone ever seen Geography Now's youtube videos?
Every episode they basically talk about a country of the world. They're going in alphabetical order. They've just reached....Serbia.
Boy are those comments sections a hoot. It seems every single person in the country is a conspiracy theory loving nationalist. Apparently America/NATO invaded Kosovo because it wanted a military base there.
Just...forget about Greece and Hungary as NATO members in the region...and Bulgaria and Romania being soon to join... and other countries in the area actively lobbying for membership.

I saw someone recently post a thread about a leading Serbian historian/conspiracy theorist. And it was kind of hilarious - basically he posited that Serbia was the origin of all major Indo-European civilisations (except Albanians).

(Apologies to my balkanic friends  )

Proto-chronism!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protochronism

Link mentions mostly Romania, but as you noted, it's a Balkan-tard ©Tamas© thing.