The professor of the #distractinglysexy fame loses his job

[derspiess]

Yeah, I think I was wrong in my initial assessment. I was thinking this was kind of similar to the guy who got fired for a comment some female overheard him make to someone else during a conference, which she then tweeted, and which he never intended for her to hear in the first place. This is not the same thing at all.

This is not someone being hoist for comments he never intended to be public, it is for something he said in a speech TO the public. He can hardly complain or feel like it was not fair that people would have an opinion about comments he made in his role and to journalists. He had a chance to walk them back, and declined - which I guess kudos to him for sticking by his beliefs?

Meri is right, I was wrong.

White knight

[Martinus]

So you think this should be a universal situation? If you ever say something horrible you should lose you job? It is simple and straightforward?

I think that when a spokesperson, in the doing of his job, makes his employer look like an ass, yes, he should lose his job for what he said.

This wasn't at a party with friends. He was in his official capacity with the university doing his job, and he openly insulted the very people he was sent to woo.

So you think that everybody who has a personality flaw in this fashion should be banned from ever supervising anybody? What should the burden of proof be? I do not think it is that cut and dry. Or maybe it is. But if it is than the answer to Marty's question is no.

Yes, I do. I think that if a person has a "personality flaw" that means that they cannot supervise people fairly, they shouldn't be supervising people. This man, when he was a tenured professor, could make or break careers entirely at his own whim. Should he be in that position, knowing that he has deep-seated biases against certain people? No. He shouldn't.

Sorry, but he is a fucking Nobel prize winner. You, on the other hand, have never achieved much in a professional field, from what I understand. You do not get to dictate how he should be treated and I hate that we live in a world where this is even a possibility.

[Berkut]

Yeah, I think I was wrong in my initial assessment. I was thinking this was kind of similar to the guy who got fired for a comment some female overheard him make to someone else during a conference, which she then tweeted, and which he never intended for her to hear in the first place. This is not the same thing at all.

This is not someone being hoist for comments he never intended to be public, it is for something he said in a speech TO the public. He can hardly complain or feel like it was not fair that people would have an opinion about comments he made in his role and to journalists. He had a chance to walk them back, and declined - which I guess kudos to him for sticking by his beliefs?

Meri is right, I was wrong.

White knight

[Valmy]

I was about to say...you might not be far off with Berkut and Meri 

[Berkut]

Sorry, but he is a fucking Nobel prize winner. You, on the other hand, have never achieved much in a professional field, from what I understand. You do not get to dictate how he should be treated and I hate that we live in a world where this is even a possibility.

So if he was a Nobel Prize winner who got up in a conference about tolerance in the workplace and said "Yeah, gays are fine, but they really don't belong in the same room as normal people" you would be all "ZOMG HE HAZ NOBEL PRIZE!!! I CANNOT POSSIBLY HAVE AN OPONION ABOUT HIM HE SO SMART!!!"

I rather doubt it. I think rather you would be more along the lines of "Yeah, clearly a super smart guy in whatever it was he has a nobel for (as long as it isn't "Peace" of course) but fuck him! Fire his ass!"

[Martinus]

Marty, you ARE aware I hope that basically this guy's reasoning applies 100% to gay men. If you do not accept women because they put sex in the mind of themselves and the straight men in the team, then you cannot have more than one gay men per team either.

And we all know that if he DID talk about gay men instead of women, you would be organising a protest to execute him.

Not really. If he is brilliant then tough luck - I would not work for him, but I would rather have brilliant assholes in charge of developing cutting edge stuff for our world than have nice guys some nurse somewhere considers to be nice.

[Martinus]

Sorry, but he is a fucking Nobel prize winner. You, on the other hand, have never achieved much in a professional field, from what I understand. You do not get to dictate how he should be treated and I hate that we live in a world where this is even a possibility.

So if he was a Nobel Prize winner who got up in a conference about tolerance in the workplace and said "Yeah, gays are fine, but they really don't belong in the same room as normal people" you would be all "ZOMG HE HAZ NOBEL PRIZE!!! I CANNOT POSSIBLY HAVE AN OPONION ABOUT HIM HE SO SMART!!!"

I rather doubt it. I think rather you would be more along the lines of "Yeah, clearly a super smart guy in whatever it was he has a nobel for (as long as it isn't "Peace" of course) but fuck him! Fire his ass!"

Nope, I said already before, using examples of homophobic stuff coming from great people.

[Valmy]

So basically 'if we are going to put up with your bigoted ass you better be brilliant'?

[Berkut]

Marty, you ARE aware I hope that basically this guy's reasoning applies 100% to gay men. If you do not accept women because they put sex in the mind of themselves and the straight men in the team, then you cannot have more than one gay men per team either.

And we all know that if he DID talk about gay men instead of women, you would be organising a protest to execute him.

Not really. If he is brilliant then tough luck - I would not work for him, but I would rather have brilliant assholes in charge of developing cutting edge stuff for our world than have nice guys some nurse somewhere considers to be nice.

But that isn't the job he was fired from - he was fired from a position where he goes around giving talks and stuff.

If he was some kind doing active, brilliant work, and he said something completely outside that work, then I am absolutely in agreement with you. You gently nudge him back to his lab and smooth the waters with the masses.

[Martinus]

Marty, you ARE aware I hope that basically this guy's reasoning applies 100% to gay men. If you do not accept women because they put sex in the mind of themselves and the straight men in the team, then you cannot have more than one gay men per team either.

And we all know that if he DID talk about gay men instead of women, you would be organising a protest to execute him.

Not really. If he is brilliant then tough luck - I would not work for him, but I would rather have brilliant assholes in charge of developing cutting edge stuff for our world than have nice guys some nurse somewhere considers to be nice.

But that isn't the job he was fired from - he was fired from a position where he goes around giving talks and stuff.

If he was some kind doing active, brilliant work, and he said something completely outside that work, then I am absolutely in agreement with you. You gently nudge him back to his lab and smooth the waters with the masses.

Notice that the discussion has shifted - I asked a question if he should have been fired, if he was heading a cutting edge research institute. Meri's response was yes.

[DGuller]

Yeah, I think I was wrong in my initial assessment. I was thinking this was kind of similar to the guy who got fired for a comment some female overheard him make to someone else during a conference, which she then tweeted, and which he never intended for her to hear in the first place. This is not the same thing at all.

This is not someone being hoist for comments he never intended to be public, it is for something he said in a speech TO the public. He can hardly complain or feel like it was not fair that people would have an opinion about comments he made in his role and to journalists. He had a chance to walk them back, and declined - which I guess kudos to him for sticking by his beliefs?

Meri is right, I was wrong.

I think most of us (except Marty) have gone on to make an argument in general about "social justice".  Sometimes real murderers get lynched, but that doesn't mean that you can't have problems with the lynching system just the same.  I don't think that Twitter rage storm is a force that can be applied selectively, so I'm dismayed when it succeeds, regardless of how karmic the result is.

[Martinus]

So basically 'if we are going to put up with your bigoted ass you better be brilliant'?

Yes. Most brilliant, great people were assholes. Michelangelo was a sexist, mysoginistic ogre who rarely if ever showered. Mozart was a self-centred narcissistic asshole. Turing was borderline autistic, unempathetic jerk. I'd rather have them in the world - and give them as much leeway as necessary to work their genius than have mediocre nice guys instead.

[Ideologue]

Too bad there's not some kind of third alternative.  Anyway punishing this guy is not going to lose us World War II. The loss (whatever it is, as I note you've made no substantive claim) of his services being outweighed by the instructive effect of a good knuckle-slapping.

I also love derspeiss' argument, which boils down to "people should be tough, so I should be able to say whatever I want. Now about those black people..."

[derspiess]

I also love derspeiss' argument, which boils down to "people should be tough, so I should be able to say whatever I want. Now about those black people..."

I bet you do, 'cept I didn't say that.

Good try impersonating Seedy, anyway.

[The Minsky Moment]

You do not get to dictate how he should be treated and I hate that we live in a world where this is even a possibility.

I can state with confidence that there is zero possibility that merithyn dictates high level personnel decisions of University College London.  Those decisions are presumably made by the provost and council who are full of equally or nearly equally eminent professionals.  So both you and Dr. Hunt can rest assured that any decisions to can him are being made by people with plenty of fancy degrees, titles, and honors.