EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Josquius]

But that does not tell the whole story. There are people on the move from Senegal to Pakistan, and as word of the ease of arrival and get house free and free dole money spreads, many, many more millions will start to move to Europe. When the idea becomes more popular in India and China, we will be seeing a migration wave the likes of which has never been seen before in History.

Interviews with illegal immigrants to the UK suggest that they already thought this would be the case.
Its still not the entire country swarming over.

Just look at Eastern Europe, the new EU countries. They have full rights to move to the west and get everything natives do.... a lot of them have but the majority of the country has remained at home.

[Razgovory]

These are more accurate photos of those that arrive from Africa:

http://www.niemanlab.org/images/italy-migrants-africa-ap-700x473.jpg

http://greece.greekreporter.com/files/Immigrants1-e1433352873813.jpg

Ooh, Scary black people!  Europe could use bit more chocolate, pale-ass honkies.

[Martim Silva]

Wait why? What has changed that would make millions of people from Senegal to China move to Europe? There are barely enough jobs now. As for all this free money, the European governments are struggling with debts as it is.

Changed?

In the last decades, people from those areas have always been trying to reach Europe. What we had was a policy of bribing the North African states to stop most of them from crossing the Mediterranean.

These are the routes from Africa:




And these the general ones:




But things changed now. For some reasons.

First, the regime of Khadafi fell. That means the Lybian coast is no longer patrolled, so the ships can now sail from there easily to Europe.

Second, Turkey is pissed at the EU. You may notice that the Turks no longer stop people crossing the Aegean Sea, much less the Afghanis that have been moving through Iran and Turkey to Europe.

The Chinese have always been trying to get in. Usually around 200,000 were at the EU borders at any given time, trying to enter. This is a rather small number (for China), but if word gets out that entries are now easy, this number will skyrocket.

As for jobs: Europe is percieved as the land of Gold. The excellent welfare given in most countries (especially Germany and Sweden) means that they can earn far more than they could by just living off subsidies in these countries, than they could ever expect to make in their own countries by working hard.

So there is really no reason for them not to come here, really.

Just look at Eastern Europe, the new EU countries. They have full rights to move to the west and get everything natives do.... a lot of them have but the majority of the country has remained at home.

Eastern Europe and the Third World are not comparable. The first has declining birth rates, the second doubles its population every 10 years.

If the same percentage of people that left East Europe for Western Europe comes to Europe from the Third World, we're talking about tens of millions of people.

Except, of course, that living standards in Africa and East Asia are far worse than those in Eastern Europe (and wages much smaller), so numbers should be rather higher.

[Valmy]

Huh. So what was up with all those articles about the angry immigrant communities marginalized without any hope or opportunities in the bleak ghettos of racist Euro-land?

[Richard Hakluyt]

But that does not tell the whole story. There are people on the move from Senegal to Pakistan, and as word of the ease of arrival and get house free and free dole money spreads, many, many more millions will start to move to Europe. When the idea becomes more popular in India and China, we will be seeing a migration wave the likes of which has never been seen before in History.

Interviews with illegal immigrants to the UK suggest that they already thought this would be the case.
Its still not the entire country swarming over.

Just look at Eastern Europe, the new EU countries. They have full rights to move to the west and get everything natives do.... a lot of them have but the majority of the country has remained at home.

The disparity between EU states is tiny compared to the disparity between the EU and third world countries. Half of India doesn't even have access to a toilet for example.

[Josquius]

The disparity between EU states is tiny compared to the disparity between the EU and third world countries. Half of India doesn't even have access to a toilet for example.

Human comprehension tends not to be entirely accurate though. The actual mental gap as people see it isn't so great as the actual gap. Especially when you consider the difficulty in comprehending something you've never experienced.

Eastern Europe and the Third World are not comparable. The first has declining birth rates, the second doubles its population every 10 years.

If the same percentage of people that left East Europe for Western Europe comes to Europe from the Third World, we're talking about tens of millions of people.

Except, of course, that living standards in Africa and East Asia are far worse than those in Eastern Europe (and wages much smaller), so numbers should be rather higher.

For Eastern Europe the journey is an entirely legal £50 flight (or a rather uncomfortable £5 or something equally crazy bus ride).
For the 3rd world it is rather more arduous and uncertain.

Don't underestimate the propensity of the majority to stick with what they've got.

[Martim Silva]

Huh. So what was up with all those articles about the angry immigrant communities marginalized without any hope or opportunities in the bleak ghettos of racist Euro-land?

People in Third World countries don't read those, nor do they care about it. All they hear is that they will be given housing and money for free when they arrive in Europe, and that's all they need to hear.

That's why it's mostly young men doing the crossing - the voyage is often paid by their families, and if they manage to get in, they invoke the right to unite with relatives to bring the rest over.

Also, they recieve good subsidies for any kids they have, so having kids is their best source of income (Jacques Chirac once gave the example of an unenployed Lebanese migrant that made more money from the child allowance he recieved from his many kids than a comparable french couple that worked hard to sustain their single child)

[The Brain]

raciss

[Razgovory]

Well if Honest Jacques said, you can bank on it.

[Valmy]

I don't know. The Latinos sneak over here to take pre-existing jobs and send the money back to their families. Our immigration laws fail because of that darn free market. But as the birth rates in Latin America decline and our job situation gets worse they stop coming. It works out.

If what Martin saying is true this migration is completely unsustainable and will fry the Euro welfare states in no time. Not to mention they are immigrating into already very densely populated countries. It wouldn't take long for things to go badly very quickly and the migration to stop. I have a hard time believing it will be the largest migration wave in history.

[Martim Silva]

Here is one exercise you all can do to put the situation in perspective.

1. Go to Google
2. Type '[country] population' (for example, Nigeria Population) in the search bar.
3. A graph with the evolution of the population of that country over the years will appear.
4. Hover over the graph to the year you were born to see how many people that country had back then.
5. Then move in periods of 10 years to see how it evolved.
6. Do this to any nation you want. Recommended are the African, Middle Eastern and East Asian nations.
7. Do the same for European nations.
8. Think about it.

[Barrister]

I love it how arch-leftist Martim Silva turns into a ethnic nationalist, and starts citing Jaques Chirac to boot.

[The Brain]

If the refugee crisis leads to Sweden abandoning the welfare state at least some good will have come out of it.

[Valmy]

Here is one exercise you all can do to put the situation in perspective.

1. Go to Google
2. Type '[country] population' (for example, Nigeria Population) in the search bar.
3. A graph with the evolution of the population of that country over the years will appear.
4. Hover over the graph to the year you were born to see how many people that country had back then.
5. Then move in periods of 10 years to see how it evolved.
6. Do this to any nation you want. Recommended are the African, Middle Eastern and East Asian nations.
7. Do the same for European nations.
8. Think about it.

I have to say Nigeria's population is growing crazy fast. It makes every other African nation look like a flat line (though the Democratic Republic of the Congo (WTF?) and Ethiopia are also making people at a crazy rate). Iran is growing but I don't see anything about a massive outflow of Iranians.

I mean yeah South Africa doubled their population in 40 years. So what? That is only slightly faster than the world population.

[Habbaku]

I am reading this book now.

http://smile.amazon.com/Invasion-Europe-Barbarians-J-Bury/dp/0393003884/

"The classic study of the Roman Empire's gradual collapse in the face of barbarian migrations. The barbarians were a scattered assortment of peoples, from the migratory Huns of Central Asia to the Franks of Gaul to the Goths and Vandals of the Germanic forest. Rather than regarding Rome as a foe, many barbarians viewed the Empire as a great institution, one in which their people had a natural place."

Peter Heather's book on the same subject is definitely worth reading.

Which one? I seem to recall he's written several on the same subject.

Sorry, this one: