Reasons for Diversification of Romance Languages in the Middle Ages?

[derspiess]

Diversity is our greatest strength.

[Valmy]

Diversity is our greatest strength.

If everybody had their own unique language think of all the diverse perspectives we could bring!

[Martinus]

Diversity is our greatest strength.

If everybody had their own unique language think of all the diverse perspectives we could bring!

We do. We just don't think we don't.

[Queequeg]

Your comment about France: I thought France was pretty diverse too.  I mean, aren't there still Norman, Breton, Occitan, Picardie, etc. influences on the local dialects?  Maybe I didn't understand your point there.

It was.  I said "John in Paris and John in Toulouse" because of the Langue d'Oil and Langue d'Oc divide.  In modern France you can get around the entire country speaking French, and only a few people would know different language like Provencal or Breton, but that's in large part a result of the revolution.  In contemporary Italy you can obviously go from Piedmonte to Sicily speaking 'Italian', but you're basically using a version of the Tuscan dialect that's similarly been established by the forces of nationalism and modern government. 

I think the situation in the Middle Ages would have been quite different.  That's what I am talking about.

I think it's a mistake to think that everyone started out speaking a common language (Latin in Europe, Arabic in the Mid-East), and languages diverged from that point.

Both languages were brought in by empires and foreign conquest.  The locals in Iberia, or Morocco, were already speaking their own indigenous languages.  Then yes, the imperial language gets introduced and the elites start speaking in, but that's going to be modified quite heavily by the language of the original people of the area.

Yeah actually I think that helps my case.

The local dialect of Arabic would be free to become a patois because of the strength of Classical Arabic.  Mashriqi Arabic in Aleppo takes a lot from Aramaic, Egyptian Arabic is a freak that takes a lot from Coptic, and ditto Moroccan and Mauritanian Arabic and the Berber languages.  Because traders, lawyers, dignitaries and warlords in the various regions had a form of Arabic they could use whatever wildly divergent local language they spoke.

I think something similar might have been happening in the "Dark Ages."  In, say, Spain, a speaker of Early Catalan, Galician, Mozarabic and Leonese could communicate in Latin if they were to go from the capital of one kingdom to another.

I think this is complicated by the plausible existence of regional patois, though.  I'd never heard of Sabir before but I guess it's likely that all of these regions had their own Sabir in addition to Latin.  That's what I can't figure out. 

[Brezel]

ADHD meds? 

Amphetamine, in other words.

[Queequeg]

You really shouldn't be taking other people's meds, Spellus.  This is perhaps a good example why.

As I mentioned in the post, I was on it for 9 years, and at a higher dose, and am considering getting back on it. 

[Caliga]

I was thinking Raz didn't mean his post to be a put-down (at least not that portion of it) but probably was made out of genuine concern for your welfare.  I suspect he's a bit of an expert around here when it comes to psychoactive drugs.

[derspiess]

Adderall does make you more productive, or so I've been told.

[Duque de Bragança]

I think something similar might have been happening in the "Dark Ages."  In, say, Spain, a speaker of Early Catalan, Galician, Mozarabic and Leonese could communicate in Latin if they were to go from the capital of one kingdom to another.

I think this is complicated by the plausible existence of regional patois, though.  I'd never heard of Sabir before but I guess it's likely that all of these regions had their own Sabir in addition to Latin.  That's what I can't figure out.

/Linguist mode
Avoid speaking of patois, the proper word is dialect. Specially with Breton (not Gallo) since it's a Celtic language, same goes for Basque or other Germanic tongues (Flemish and Germanic) in France. To sum up, patois : sub-dialect, used derogatively sometimes.
/Linguist mode off

On a lighter note, Sabir is somewhat well-known since Molière and Goldoni made fun of it.
Bourgeois Gentilhomme

LE MUFTI

Se ti sabir,
Ti respondir;
Se non sabir,
Tazir, tazir.   
Mi star Mufti:
Ti qui star ti?
Non intendir:
Tazir, tazir.

http://www.site-moliere.com/pieces/bourg405.htm

More seriously, it's the "original" Lingua Franca that was only used with the southern and eastern mediterranean peoples by Romance languages speakers, not between Romance peoples.

[Siege]

I don't think the theory is very logical.  It's based on the assumption that elites are filled with a burning desire to create local languages, and are given the freedom because they still possess a universal language to communicate with other elites.

It makes more sense to me that local languages evolved organically, based on the lack of an education system that passed on the rules of language.  Bottom up, not top down.

this. lack of trde and comm.

[Capetan Mihali]

I suspect he's a bit of an expert around here when it comes to psychoactive drugs.

Spellus, try to get on the real Dexedrine (all dextroamphetamine) rather than the racemic Adderall junk (25% levoamphetamine); I think your linguistic insights will come through much more clearly.

[Capetan Mihali]

ADHD meds? 

Amphetamine, in other words.

Not your Continental amph. sulfate, though.

I remember Habsburg warning me off amphetamines 10 years ago, when I got a little too enthusiastic about them.   Where are the snows of yesteryear?