The DEI thread

[Josquius]

I saw the Hitler salute.  If you want to predict that at some point only white men will be hired for any job, I'll take the bet.

I don't believe we will end up there. This would take many years to change and I'm still hopeful America can hold onto democracy. But not for lack of effort from trumps lot.
Certainly I can see statistics shifting so more priveleged white guys get hired over less priveleged white people, minorities, women, etc...
Or rather with the way things going rather than hired, still holding a job is a better term.

[Sheilbh]

I don't know how true this is given the replication crisis in the social sciences (at last! tear that temple of fraudsters down) - but I believe there have actually been a few studies of unconscious bias training that shows that not only does it not work, people leave it with more bias. I think the basic point (which I've definitely experienced) is that the training often exposes people to stereotypes they weren't previously aware of

This isn't directly linked to DEI but part of the wider conversation on "woke"/"cancel culture" etc. I do think that in the US in particular (but also Germany frankly) there possibly needs to be some thought around how language of "safety" and the approach of de-platforming has led to huge pressure by the state on universities, cultural and arts institutions and at the most extreme in the US foreign students participating in pro-Palestinian protests being bundled off the streets by ICE teams and deported (often after a brief period of what seems to be borderline disappearance where they seem to have no habeas corpus rights). I think in the use of ICE in particular that is meant as a threat and I don't think it's just targeted at foreign students.

I think it's always important, if you're using non-statutory levers of power for a political goal, to be mindful of the fact you've revealed a lever of power and set a precedent and your opponents will use it to advance their agenda (that may vary from Germany which is just cracking down on free speech in relation to Israel-Palestine to Trump's approach which I think is about breaking the independence of higher education and a disciplining threat to dissenters). It's a bit like executives using state pension funds to prioritise ESG investing, for example, we need to be aware that the other side can come in not only reverse that but, say, direct them to focus investment in extraction and gambling (trying to work out an anti-ESG - especially as I now back investing in defence companies).

Again it's why I think it's why it's a restraint but doing things through legislation passed by a legislature should be the way of doing politics, not looking for creative interpretations of executive/administrative power (see also Obama and drone strikes or the national security state in general) because it will be used by people you disagree with too and we've accidentally invented Charles I. I wasn't critical enough of this at the time, I was too sanguine and I think it's a problem. Obviously this is just exposing again the big problem in the US that it does not have a functioning legislature capable of fulfilling its constitutional role anymore.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't believe we will end up there. This would take many years to change and I'm still hopeful America can hold onto democracy. But not for lack of effort from trumps lot.
Certainly I can see statistics shifting so more priveleged white guys get hired over less priveleged white people, minorities, women, etc...
Or rather with the way things going rather than hired, still holding a job is a better term.

If their super double secret probabationary wish is not going to come true, why the fuck should I care about it?  Why do you care about it?

[Josquius]

I don't believe we will end up there. This would take many years to change and I'm still hopeful America can hold onto democracy. But not for lack of effort from trumps lot.
Certainly I can see statistics shifting so more priveleged white guys get hired over less priveleged white people, minorities, women, etc...
Or rather with the way things going rather than hired, still holding a job is a better term.

If their super double secret probabationary wish is not going to come true, why the fuck should I care about it?  Why do you care about it?

Seriously?
Don't worry about the fascists because they're not going to get what they want?
People worrying about trumps shit and standing up to it is a key part of why I don't expect them to get everything they want.

[Admiral Yi]

Seriously?
Don't worry about the fascists because they're not going to get what they want?
People worrying about trumps shit and standing up to it is a key part of why I don't expect them to get everything they want.

That's a perfect formula for giving yourself credit for something you don't deserve credit for.  You invent a secret goal and them claim credit when it doesn't come true.

I claim credit for heroically resisting the secret plan of English Northerners to castrate all Jewish men.

[Josquius]

Seriously?
Don't worry about the fascists because they're not going to get what they want?
People worrying about trumps shit and standing up to it is a key part of why I don't expect them to get everything they want.

That's a perfect formula for giving yourself credit for something you don't deserve credit for.  You invent a secret goal and them claim credit when it doesn't come true.

I claim credit for heroically resisting the secret plan of English Northerners to castrate all Jewish men.

Banana gerbil bible sprinting hexagonal shove?

[HVC]

Seriously?
Don't worry about the fascists because they're not going to get what they want?
People worrying about trumps shit and standing up to it is a key part of why I don't expect them to get everything they want.

That's a perfect formula for giving yourself credit for something you don't deserve credit for.  You invent a secret goal and them claim credit when it doesn't come true.

I claim credit for heroically resisting the secret plan of English Northerners to castrate all Jewish men.

Banana gerbil bible sprinting hexagonal shove?

That's actually one of the most compelling arguments you've ever made

[Razgovory]

Seriously?
Don't worry about the fascists because they're not going to get what they want?

I see this argument all the time with regard to non-white fascists.  Hell, you made this argument with Hamas before.

[crazy canuck]

Way to go Baron. You resurrect the thread and this is what we get.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

This one I split out of the Musk thread.

[Razgovory]

Way to go Baron. You resurrect the thread and this is what we get.

Pipe down, you'll get what you want in a month.  The odds are very good I won't post again for a really long time.  You, viper and Zoupa should be thrilled.

[Josquius]

Seriously?
Don't worry about the fascists because they're not going to get what they want?

I see this argument all the time with regard to non-white fascists.  Hell, you made this argument with Hamas before.

And you don't see a slight difference between the situation of Trump and Hamas? Gaza and the USA?

Though I imagine the deep supporters of both do blame the Jews

[Razgovory]

Seriously?
Don't worry about the fascists because they're not going to get what they want?

I see this argument all the time with regard to non-white fascists.  Hell, you made this argument with Hamas before.

And you don't see a slight difference between the situation of Trump and Hamas? Gaza and the USA?

Though I imagine the deep supporters of both do blame the Jews

Yes I do see a slight difference between curtailing human resource programs designed to avoid liability and killings large numbers of people.  Why do you ask?

[Josquius]

Seriously?
Don't worry about the fascists because they're not going to get what they want?

I see this argument all the time with regard to non-white fascists.  Hell, you made this argument with Hamas before.

And you don't see a slight difference between the situation of Trump and Hamas? Gaza and the USA?

Though I imagine the deep supporters of both do blame the Jews

Yes I do see a slight difference between curtailing human resource programs designed to avoid liability and killings large numbers of people.  Why do you ask?

[Razgovory]

I'm not following.