Baltics to ask NATO for thousands of troops.

[Zanza]

@Tamas: The situation isn't comparable to the World Wars, but to the Cold War. Showing strength was the right policy for the West to counter the Soviet Union. It is again the right policy towards Putin's neo-imperialist pretensions.

[Tamas]

@Tamas: The situation isn't comparable to the World Wars, but to the Cold War. Showing strength was the right policy for the West to counter the Soviet Union. It is again the right policy towards Putin's neo-imperialist pretensions.

You are probably right, and I sure hope you are.

[celedhring]

I'm with Tamas here, I have a hard time starting a military buildup when there's no visible threat to the Baltics. If the Russians ever look like trying something funny, for sure, let's put boots on the ground quickly and decisively, and we can make moves to give assurances on that regard that don't involve stationing thousands near the Russian border. But right now I don't see the point on playing into Russian paranoia.

[grumbler]

@Tamas: The situation isn't comparable to the World Wars, but to the Cold War. Showing strength was the right policy for the West to counter the Soviet Union. It is again the right policy towards Putin's neo-imperialist pretensions.

Agreed.  Putin's strategy is to show strength by picking on the weaklings.  He knows russia cannot afford a real war against a real opponent.  While Tamas is correct that many Russians would see a NATO deployment to defend NATO territory as an intolerable aggression against Russian aggression, we know beyond doubt that those same Russians will swallow any lie Putin's government can come up with.  The key to keeping the peace is convincing Putin to alter the lies from "why we must take over EVOL BALTIKS TODAY to REVENGE IS DISH BEST EATEN COLD.

[grumbler]

I'm with Tamas here, I have a hard time starting a military buildup when there's no visible threat to the Baltics. If the Russians ever look like trying something funny, for sure, let's put boots on the ground quickly and decisively, and we can make moves to give assurances on that regard that don't involve stationing thousands near the Russian border. But right now I don't see the point on playing into Russian paranoia.

Because if the Russians commit themselves to aggression, defeating the aggression will be a lot harder and more costly (in lives and money) than deterring it.  Words don't deter Putin.  Actions deter Putin.

[derspiess]

unless the Baltic states don't want us there for historical reasons.

Hell, I bet you'd have people there volunteering to serve in some of your units.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, we need to put some soldiers there, we don't need Putin pulling that, "little green men", bullshit again.  I don't think Obama has the balls for it though.  Hopefully he can prove me wrong, but we need to send a very clear message that Russia can't bite off a chunk of a NATO country.  The only way to really do that is a deployment of troops.  The alliance needs a shot in the arm.  Everyone needs to remember that an attack one is an attack on all.

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah, we need to put some soldiers there, we don't need Putin pulling that, "little green men", bullshit again.  I don't think Obama has the balls for it though.  Hopefully he can prove me wrong, but we need to send a very clear message that Russia can't bite off a chunk of a NATO country.  The only way to really do that is a deployment of troops.  The alliance needs a shot in the arm.  Everyone needs to remember that an attack one is an attack on all.

Obama already sent some troops there. 

[derspiess]

If a fox stole your chickens, would you slaughter your pig because he saw the fox?  No. You would hunt the fox-- you would find where it lives and destroy it!  And how do we do this?  Become a fox.

[Zanza]

The public opinion that matters is not that of the Russian public, but that of the Baltic public. They share our values, want to be a part of the free, liberal Western world and we should make sure they feel secure in their own country.

[Barrister]

I think there's room to come down the middle on this.

You could station a fairly small, even nominal force in the baltics - one small enough it couldn't possibly be a threat to Russia.

However it is there to act as a tripwire - that would inevitably involve NATO if Russia was ever to intervene.

[grumbler]

I think there's room to come down the middle on this.

You could station a fairly small, even nominal force in the baltics - one small enough it couldn't possibly be a threat to Russia.

However it is there to act as a tripwire - that would inevitably involve NATO if Russia was ever to intervene.

That's not coming down in the middle, though.  That's just acceding to the request from the Baltic states.

[Zanza]

I think there's room to come down the middle on this.

You could station a fairly small, even nominal force in the baltics - one small enough it couldn't possibly be a threat to Russia.

However it is there to act as a tripwire - that would inevitably involve NATO if Russia was ever to intervene.

A single brigade with 3000 men is a nominal force. Even the most paranoid Russian can't construe that as Operation Barbarossa, part II.

[Darth Wagtaros]

If a fox stole your chickens, would you slaughter your pig because he saw the fox?  No. You would hunt the fox-- you would find where it lives and destroy it!  And how do we do this?  Become a fox.

red Dawn? Re-watched last night.

[derspiess]

Yep.  Good man :wolverines: