E-Cigarette use tripled between 2013 and 2014 among teens

[Malthus]

Be concerned all you want, JCO.  Come back with solid data showing an uptick in youngsters smoking due to e-cigs or GTFO.

Fair.

The point I was thinking of though is that the use of e-cigs places both sides in an awkward spot: big tobacco, because it cuts into their market; and anti-smoking activists, because here is a form of smoking that is associated with much lower risk of harms (and much lower annoyance to non-smokers).

The real issue this raises is 'is selling a highly addictive substance that won't, necessariily, kill you (or make you crazy or make your teeth fall out, like some other really addictive drugs) bad in and of itself, simply because it is highly addictive?'

This is a harder 'sell' that a highly addictive substance that also does all sorts of bad things to you.

[Eddie Teach]

The real issue this raises is 'is selling a highly addictive substance that won't, necessariily, kill you (or make you crazy or make your teeth fall out, like some other really addictive drugs) bad in and of itself, simply because it is highly addictive?'

Like video games?

[derspiess]

Be concerned all you want, JCO.  Come back with solid data showing an uptick in youngsters smoking due to e-cigs or GTFO.

Fair.

The point I was thinking of though is that the use of e-cigs places both sides in an awkward spot: big tobacco, because it cuts into their market; and anti-smoking activists, because here is a form of smoking that is associated with much lower risk of harms (and much lower annoyance to non-smokers).

The real issue this raises is 'is selling a highly addictive substance that won't, necessariily, kill you (or make you crazy or make your teeth fall out, like some other really addictive drugs) bad in and of itself, simply because it is highly addictive?'

This is a harder 'sell' that a highly addictive substance that also does all sorts of bad things to you.

Understandable.  But I think a lot of the concern is that OMG kids are doing something we don't want them to do and that is just horrible, plus these things are scary because they look like cigarettes.

If you're* gonna sit around and worry about something, worry about the growing heroin use that is actually killing people.




*I don't mean you personally, of course.

[Valmy]

Like video games?

I can quit at any time!

[Malthus]

The real issue this raises is 'is selling a highly addictive substance that won't, necessariily, kill you (or make you crazy or make your teeth fall out, like some other really addictive drugs) bad in and of itself, simply because it is highly addictive?'

Like video games?

Well, yeah. Though arguably video games are worse, because they take time people could be using for healthier pursuits.

[Razgovory]

You're an idiot.  The main issue with cigarettes is that they are known carcinogen.

How does that contradict anything I said?

"Add to that the fact that many tobacco giants have a vital interest in curbing e-cigarette industry, and that e-cigarettes artfully side-step 90% of all concerns raised against smoking by anti-tobacco campaigners "

They have failed to address the the main issue, which is that cigarettes are carcinogen.

E-cigarettes, since they do not actually rely on burning stuff as the mechanism for getting the drug into one's lungs, are comparatively much less carcenogenic than real cigarettes.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2013/03/05/tobaccocontrol-2012-050859.abstract

The main concern about e-cigarettes are that they may reduce the stigma associated with smoking (and thus encourage more people to try it) and so result in more taking up real cigarette smoking once they are hooked on nicotine.

http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/33/8/952.abstract

Like 90% less?

[Valmy]

Well, yeah. Though arguably video games are worse, because they take time people could be using for healthier pursuits.

Watching porn and masturbating? I guess it does build up cardiovascular strength.

[Caliga]

I was at the airport a few months back and some chick sitting next to me at the gate started smoking one of those. 

[Sheilbh]

The main concern about e-cigarettes are that they may reduce the stigma associated with smoking (and thus encourage more people to try it) and so result in more taking up real cigarette smoking once they are hooked on nicotine.

http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/33/8/952.abstract

The main concern is puritanism.

All the stats so far show the overwhelming majority of people on e-cigarettes are either smokers or ex-smokers. Balancing a real public health issue of people quitting smoking against a nebulous one of 'reducing stigma' should be a no brainer.

See the piece by Derek Yach:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/health/features-health/cover-feature/9442271/e-cigarettes-save-lives/

[Malthus]

You're an idiot.  The main issue with cigarettes is that they are known carcinogen.

How does that contradict anything I said?

"Add to that the fact that many tobacco giants have a vital interest in curbing e-cigarette industry, and that e-cigarettes artfully side-step 90% of all concerns raised against smoking by anti-tobacco campaigners "

They have failed to address the the main issue, which is that cigarettes are carcinogen.

E-cigarettes, since they do not actually rely on burning stuff as the mechanism for getting the drug into one's lungs, are comparatively much less carcenogenic than real cigarettes.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2013/03/05/tobaccocontrol-2012-050859.abstract

The main concern about e-cigarettes are that they may reduce the stigma associated with smoking (and thus encourage more people to try it) and so result in more taking up real cigarette smoking once they are hooked on nicotine.

http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/33/8/952.abstract

Like 90% less?

At least.

From the study:

Results We found that the e-cigarette vapours contained some toxic substances. The levels of the toxicants were 9–450 times lower than in cigarette smoke and were, in many cases, comparable with trace amounts found in the reference product.

[Malthus]

The main concern is puritanism.

All the stats so far show the overwhelming majority of people on e-cigarettes are either smokers or ex-smokers. Balancing a real public health issue of people quitting smoking against a nebulous one of 'reducing stigma' should be a no brainer.

See the piece by Derek Yach:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/health/features-health/cover-feature/9442271/e-cigarettes-save-lives/

I would tend to agree.

[jimmy olsen]

You're an idiot.  The main issue with cigarettes is that they are known carcinogen.

How does that contradict anything I said?

"Add to that the fact that many tobacco giants have a vital interest in curbing e-cigarette industry, and that e-cigarettes artfully side-step 90% of all concerns raised against smoking by anti-tobacco campaigners "

They have failed to address the the main issue, which is that cigarettes are carcinogen.

E-cigarettes, since they do not actually rely on burning stuff as the mechanism for getting the drug into one's lungs, are comparatively much less carcenogenic than real cigarettes.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2013/03/05/tobaccocontrol-2012-050859.abstract

The main concern about e-cigarettes are that they may reduce the stigma associated with smoking (and thus encourage more people to try it) and so result in more taking up real cigarette smoking once they are hooked on nicotine.

http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/33/8/952.abstract

Given how much cigarette use fell among young people during that time frame, it doesn't seem to be a valid concern.

[garbon]

I still hate e-cigs.

[jimmy olsen]

I still hate e-cigs.

Is there a particular reason why?

[Martinus]

I still hate e-cigs.

Is there a particular reason why?

Because whatevs and he can't just. Ohmygod.