Will science prove the existence of parallel universes!?

Started by jimmy olsen, March 26, 2015, 12:42:30 AM

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Eddie Teach

#45
March 28, 2015, 04:19:51 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 28, 2015, 04:15:57 AM
These days I normally use "Sky Santa", but I guess the distinction is lost on you people.

Sounds like you're getting a lump of coal.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Martinus

#46
March 28, 2015, 04:24:49 AM
Intelligent Design is another face of the "god of gaps" - as all the previous fairy tales of the religulous are no longer sustainable, they had to come up with a new one.

Razgovory

#47
March 28, 2015, 11:09:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 28, 2015, 04:24:49 AM
Intelligent Design is another face of the "god of gaps" - as all the previous fairy tales of the religulous are no longer sustainable, they had to come up with a new one.

As it predates science, no that this not true.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

grumbler

#48
March 28, 2015, 12:08:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 28, 2015, 04:24:49 AM
Intelligent Design is another face of the "god of gaps" - as all the previous fairy tales of the religulous are no longer sustainable, they had to come up with a new one.
Exactly.  It is the attempt by the True Believers to adopt the pretense of scientific thought in order to circumvent the consequences of scientific thought.  It replaces the idea that the world we perceive is a trap set by the devil with the idea that what we perceive is true but misunderstood. that science "properly done" results in evidence of the existence of gods.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Martinus

#49
March 28, 2015, 01:53:22 PM
By the way, is anyone else constantly misreading it as "large hardon collider"?

Valmy

#50
March 28, 2015, 01:58:12 PM Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 01:59:43 PM by Valmy
Quote from: Martinus on March 28, 2015, 04:24:49 AM
Intelligent Design is another face of the "god of gaps" - as all the previous fairy tales of the religulous are no longer sustainable, they had to come up with a new one.

Almost everything of human existence is fairy tales. The point is to get good fairy tales that are harmless. Easier said than done, but I have a hard time seeing anything too dangerous about intelligent design. Not that I would be too surprised if there was something dangerous about it, it is hard to find a concept innocuous enough that deranged people cannot be deranged with it.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

grumbler

#51
March 28, 2015, 02:31:11 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 28, 2015, 01:58:12 PM
Almost everything of human existence is fairy tales.

Do you really believe this, or is this just more emo over-reaction?  Because to argue that computer programs, or paleontology, or string theory is "fairy tales" is to argue complete crap.

QuoteThe point is to get good fairy tales that are harmless. Easier said than done, but I have a hard time seeing anything too dangerous about intelligent design. Not that I would be too surprised if there was something dangerous about it, it is hard to find a concept innocuous enough that deranged people cannot be deranged with it.

I have no idea why we want "harmless" fairy tales, or even how to tell when a "fairy tale" does us harm.  Intelligent Design theory is a con, designed to fool people who aren't really aware of what science is into thinking that ID is a scientific idea.  Now, I suppose it could be argued that idiots will believe idiotic things, and ID is no more idiotic than any other brand of creationism, but I think ID is a more pernicious brand of fraud than typical creationism, because most creationists just reject the idea of using the scientific method to resolve metaphysical questions; they don't fraudulently pretend to be using scientific methods.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Razgovory

#52
March 28, 2015, 02:45:01 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 28, 2015, 12:08:45 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 28, 2015, 04:24:49 AM
Intelligent Design is another face of the "god of gaps" - as all the previous fairy tales of the religulous are no longer sustainable, they had to come up with a new one.
Exactly.  It is the attempt by the True Believers to adopt the pretense of scientific thought in order to circumvent the consequences of scientific thought.  It replaces the idea that the world we perceive is a trap set by the devil with the idea that what we perceive is true but misunderstood. that science "properly done" results in evidence of the existence of gods.

"God in the Gaps" doesn't mean what you think it means.  But then you are agreeing with Marty.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

#53
March 28, 2015, 02:48:18 PM
The God of the Gap talks like a valley girl. For sure.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

grumbler

#54
March 28, 2015, 03:06:56 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 28, 2015, 02:48:18 PM
The God of the Gap talks like a valley girl. For sure.

I think you and raz are referring to the gap as in a place to shop.  Not the same thing.  I don't think.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

11B4V

#55
March 29, 2015, 01:05:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 28, 2015, 01:53:22 PM
By the way, is anyone else constantly misreading it as "large hardon collider"?

I'm not gay, so no.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Valmy

#56
March 30, 2015, 09:09:32 AM Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 09:21:47 AM by Valmy
Quote from: grumbler on March 28, 2015, 02:31:11 PM

Do you really believe this, or is this just more emo over-reaction?

Yes. It is one of the things I enjoy most about being human. We sure put alot of emphasis on things that, really, are pretty meaningless. But it is our nature to see meaning everywhere. Not sure why that is emo, I think you are projecting something that is not there.

QuoteBecause to argue that computer programs, or paleontology, or string theory is "fairy tales" is to argue complete crap.

Ok? Even to the extent those things are or are not "fairy tales" those things are not like most things in human existence. Most of us do not naturally think in zeroes and ones. String theory and paleontology are pretty outside most people's existence. On the other hand, my god do all these things get used to fuel irrational fantasies. I find the mystical thinking that comes out of things like Quantum theory rather hilarious. It is just what we do, and I sort of enjoy being a participant in that. Probably because I am as crazy as everybody else.

I am a little surprised about your reaction here since you yourself make this point all the time, when talking about things like race and so forth. Well guess what is a bigger factor in human experience in this country? Race is far bigger of a deal than string theory, and it is based on nothing but fairy tales. But wow it is a huge part of the human experience these days.

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#57
March 30, 2015, 09:53:04 AM Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 09:55:23 AM by Valmy
Quote from: grumbler on March 28, 2015, 02:31:11 PM

I have no idea why we want "harmless" fairy tales, or even how to tell when a "fairy tale" does us harm.

Because people are irrational, and more than that they are drawn to irrationality. So best to find irrational things that do not encourage anti-social values.

QuoteIntelligent Design theory is a con, designed to fool people who aren't really aware of what science is into thinking that ID is a scientific idea.  Now, I suppose it could be argued that idiots will believe idiotic things, and ID is no more idiotic than any other brand of creationism, but I think ID is a more pernicious brand of fraud than typical creationism, because most creationists just reject the idea of using the scientific method to resolve metaphysical questions; they don't fraudulently pretend to be using scientific methods.

It may be a con, or it may be in earnest by people who want to be engaged in science and also keep their religious stuff. Or maybe both. And it is just a 'fairy tale' that only idiots believe this stuff, unfortunately. Irrational thinking is hardly absent from very intelligent people.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Siege

#58
March 30, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 29, 2015, 01:05:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 28, 2015, 01:53:22 PM
By the way, is anyone else constantly misreading it as "large hardon collider"?

I'm not gay, so no.

You are not?
Weird. I always thought you were.
Not that there is anything bad with not being gay.


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"

grumbler

#59
March 30, 2015, 10:12:22 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 30, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
Yes. It is one of the things I enjoy most about being human. We sure put alot of emphasis on things that, really, are pretty meaningless. But it is our nature to see meaning everywhere. Not sure why that is emo, I think you are projecting something that is not there.

I guess whatever group you belong to that sees meaning everywhere is inclined to believe that they are also representative of everyone.  Can't hold your nature against you, I guess, but I can ask you not to generalize from yourself to all humans.

QuoteOk? Even to the extent those things are or are not "fairy tales" those things are not like most things in human existence.

Ah, the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.  Haven't seen that one trotted out here in a coupla weeks.

QuoteI am a little surprised about your reaction here since you yourself make this point all the time, when talking about things like race and so forth. Well guess what is a bigger factor in human experience in this country? Race is far bigger of a deal than string theory, and it is based on nothing but fairy tales. But wow it is a huge part of the human experience these days.

I make specific statements about the mythology of race, rather than sweeping generalizations about "almost everything of human existence" and drawing incomprehensible conclusions like how "the point is to get good fairy tales that are harmless."  Racism is a fairly recent phenomenon in human history; the reason why there is so much debate over whether historical figures X or Y were "black" is that none of their contemporaries mentioned the "race" of X or Y because they didn't have the concept.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!
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