Ivan Massow: Gay men may not realise it, but they are Tory

[Martinus]

Funny how garbon objects to that, given his voting record, by the way. 

[garbon]

While reproductive rights are largely indifferent to gays personally

Again, who are these gay people? Reproductive rights are not an issue for myself, but I don't live in a vacuum. I have both family and friends to whom they matter a great deal.

they do tend to have more disposable income and are less likely to have kids - so they are more likely to support lower taxes rather than higher taxes, with tax breaks/social welfare designated to help single mothers and the like

Assuming once again that one should only be voting in what is selfishly good for just a single individual and not thinking about anyone they are connected to. /could even be short sighted as said policies could actually make things better for them. Particularly as gays need a supportive, well-funded government to protect them.

; and on immigration, at least in Europe, they are likely to have legitimate concerns about immigration from Muslim countries and other countries likely to bring in homophobic immigrants.

Well yes, it probably helps that you have that whole freedom of movement thing in place to make it less of an issue for gay couples/families across EU countries.

[garbon]

They may earn less money in absolute terms (although that is debatable and, as we have discussed in the past, may have more to do with lower willingness to put up with a crappy job than a dad with stay-at-home wife, 2+ kids and a mortgage) but probably have more disposable income.

Oddly, Malthus and I discussed in the last few months the exact opposite with regards to singles vs. marrieds with family. Single people viewed as more of a flight risk as they don't have dependents to worry about.

Also, wouldn't the family with less disposable income receive a greater boon from lower taxation than the gay man swimming in money?

[Ed Anger]

Funny how it goes the other way as well; I used to be a much more unapologetic supporter of the liberal gay agenda until Martinus and garbon came along.  Between those two, they'll set you back 50 years hating on fags.  At least rufweed is cool, or it'd be a total loss.

Grabass is cool. mart needs to be exiled to Alabama without Internet.

[Martinus]

Also, wouldn't the family with less disposable income receive a greater boon from lower taxation than the gay man swimming in money?

Not really, unless you have a really punishing flat tax system with no tax breaks.

Most Western countries, however, have progressive income tax systems, with tax breaks, and taxes like VAT (with a varying rate depending on the nature of the good or service) that tend to punish spurious consumption or cash hoarding - as opposed to spending it on stuff like education for children and the like.

[garbon]

Funny how garbon objects to that, given his voting record, by the way. 

It has been a natural inclination for myself but that's hardly is down to the impact my sexuality has had on my life.

[celedhring]

Reminds me of how Hispanics so far have always voted overwhelmingly Democrat in the US, despite being socially rather conservative. 

[Martinus]

Funny how garbon objects to that, given his voting record, by the way. 

It has been a natural inclination for myself but that's hardly is down to the impact my sexuality has had on my life.

I think that is his point in the indirect way - i.e. that once you remove the element of sexuality, gay men tend to fit the demographics that tends to vote Tory.

I don't think it is entirely off - I have observed frequently that I sometimes agree with conservative policies, but will not vote conservative because I won't vote for someone who holds me in contempt for being gay.

[garbon]

Funny how garbon objects to that, given his voting record, by the way. 

It has been a natural inclination for myself but that's hardly is down to the impact my sexuality has had on my life.

I think that is his point in the indirect way - i.e. that once you remove the element of sexuality, gay men tend to fit the demographics that tends to vote Tory.

I think it fits for wealthy, mainstream, white gay guys.

[Martinus]

Which, incidentally, are gay men at the centre of current gay rights movement.

You also have to remember that among non-white males, it is much more common to be MSM than openly gay.

[Valmy]

MSM

Main Stream Media?  Methylsulfonylmethane?

[The Brain]

Gay men vote Tory but don't notice?

[Admiral Yi]

Monosodium Mutamate

[Valmy]

Gay men vote Tory but don't notice?

That seems to be how it works in Britain.  Somehow the Tories get lots of votes despite seemingly being hated by everybody.

[garbon]

Which, incidentally, are gay men at the centre of current gay rights movement.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Most visible, perhaps but even then it really isn't possible to have a lefty movement these days that is so mono-cultured.

You also have to remember that among non-white males, it is much more common to be MSM than openly gay.

Pro-tip while the CDC might use that term, I don't think anyone uses that colloquially. That's just a closet case.