Stolen Valor: The Megathread

[Alcibiades]

He lied about the anecdote, but it is not "stolen valor", since as far as I can see the anecdote he lied about did not contain any claim he actually did anything valorous. 

You have to keep in mind that the military thinks being somewhere in the same zip code as live fire is valorous.

  wha?   

[Alcibiades]

He was 35 minutes behind the other copter.

Close enough.  I felt all badass storming Fort Douaumont and it last got shelled 99 years ago.

But seriously he could have spun that just a half hour ago a helicopter was shot down where he was helicoptering about.  He was willing to risk it for the noble journalistic profession blah blah.

Supposedly that's how he used to tell the story for most of a decade, but it has morphed in the last couple of years to his helicopter was the one that got hit etc.

[Malthus]

He lied about the anecdote, but it is not "stolen valor", since as far as I can see the anecdote he lied about did not contain any claim he actually did anything valorous.

You're picking a nit.  Taking live fire definitely gives a war correspondent street cred.

How is that a nit? There is no "valor" in simply being shot at. That makes you a victim, not a hero.

It is certainly newsworthy, and gives your anecdote flavour, both of which are no doubt reasons he lied, but it is not "stolen valor" - a term I would associate more with people wearing military decorations they have not in fact earned and the like, where the presumption is that they are doing so to lay claim to heroism they have not in fact earned.

[Valmy]

He lied about the anecdote, but it is not "stolen valor", since as far as I can see the anecdote he lied about did not contain any claim he actually did anything valorous. 

You have to keep in mind that the military thinks being somewhere in the same zip code as live fire is valorous.

  wha?   

It was a joke about the 'stolen valor' thing, isn't stripes an official publication?

That line seems stolen from the John Kerry thing.

[Admiral Yi]

How is that a nit? There is no "valor" in simply being shot at. That makes you a victim, not a hero.

It's a nit because exposing yourself to enemy fire and not running away, or assuming the fetal position and sobbing, or shitting your pants are generally accepted as proof of some positive quality, whether you want to call it valor or not.  The history books are full of examples of folks who are lauded for nothing more than standing still under enemy fire.

[Alcibiades]

He lied about the anecdote, but it is not "stolen valor", since as far as I can see the anecdote he lied about did not contain any claim he actually did anything valorous.

You're picking a nit.  Taking live fire definitely gives a war correspondent street cred.

How is that a nit? There is no "valor" in simply being shot at. That makes you a victim, not a hero.

It is certainly newsworthy, and gives your anecdote flavour, both of which are no doubt reasons he lied, but it is not "stolen valor" - a term I would associate more with people wearing military decorations they have not in fact earned and the like, where the presumption is that they are doing so to lay claim to heroism they have not in fact earned.

Valor awards in the military still have credence, fortunately.  With the medal inflation of a lot of awards during the war (looking a you, bronze star) having a V(alor) device on a medal is fairly difficult to get and is what is important. 

I have one and its the only thing on my rack that matters. 

[alfred russel]

How is that a nit? There is no "valor" in simply being shot at. That makes you a victim, not a hero.

It's a nit because exposing yourself to enemy fire and not running away, or assuming the fetal position and sobbing, or shitting your pants are generally accepted as proof of some positive quality, whether you want to call it valor or not.  The history books are full of examples of folks who are lauded for nothing more than standing still under enemy fire.

Also he was doing it to bring us the news. It seems like it qualifies as heroic to get shot down in a helicopter, carry on, and report to America the story of the Iraq War from the desert in the same grave tones and great hair that you have in a NYC studio.

[Alcibiades]

How is that a nit? There is no "valor" in simply being shot at. That makes you a victim, not a hero.

It's a nit because exposing yourself to enemy fire and not running away, or assuming the fetal position and sobbing, or shitting your pants are generally accepted as proof of some positive quality, whether you want to call it valor or not.  The history books are full of examples of folks who are lauded for nothing more than standing still under enemy fire.

Also he was doing it to bring us the news. It seems like it qualifies as heroic to get shot down in a helicopter, carry on, and report to America the story of the Iraq War from the desert in the same grave tones and great hair that you have in a NYC studio.

Well I guess people have issue with the fact that he was not, in fact, in any danger or under fire at any time.  Guess he just wanted to be associated with Ernie Pyle? 

Really though, still think he made a mistake but doesn't deserve as much attention as the issue is getting.

[Malthus]

How is that a nit? There is no "valor" in simply being shot at. That makes you a victim, not a hero.

It's a nit because exposing yourself to enemy fire and not running away, or assuming the fetal position and sobbing, or shitting your pants are generally accepted as proof of some positive quality, whether you want to call it valor or not.  The history books are full of examples of folks who are lauded for nothing more than standing still under enemy fire.

This is what he lied about:

"The story actually started with a terrible moment a dozen years back during the invasion of Iraq when the helicopter we were traveling in was forced down after being hit by an RPG," Williams said on the broadcast. "Our traveling NBC News team was rescued, surrounded and kept alive by an armor mechanized platoon from the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry."

In fact, he was in a different helicopter an hour behind that one.

According to his own lying anecdote, he did fuck-all: he was shot down - in a vehicle - and rescued by others. He did not claim to 'stand still under enemy fire', as you put it. He's no different than a hostage or an accident victim: he's not claiming any "heroism".

If it is "heroic" for a reporter to merely be in the field in a place where one *could* be shot at, well - that he wasn't actually lying about.

[Valmy]

The 3rd Infantry must have been really confused 'wait when did we save that NBC news crew?'

[Admiral Yi]

I'm not interested in going on Malthus.

[Malthus]

The 3rd Infantry must have been really confused 'wait when did we save that NBC news crew?'

He committed 'valor-inflation'. 

[Norgy]

This is frontline reporting:

http://www.nrk.no/kultur/_thug-life-reporter_-responds-to-newfound-viral-fame-1.12134421
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0ae_1420586129&comments=1

Fucks given: 0

[dps]

He lied about the anecdote, but it is not "stolen valor", since as far as I can see the anecdote he lied about did not contain any claim he actually did anything valorous.

You're picking a nit.  Taking live fire definitely gives a war correspondent street cred.

How is that a nit? There is no "valor" in simply being shot at. That makes you a victim, not a hero.

It is certainly newsworthy, and gives your anecdote flavour, both of which are no doubt reasons he lied, but it is not "stolen valor" - a term I would associate more with people wearing military decorations they have not in fact earned and the like, where the presumption is that they are doing so to lay claim to heroism they have not in fact earned.

I tend to agree with you on this, but I think it's largely an issue of semantics as to whether or not his actions amount to a case of "stolen valor". 

OTOH, as you say, he lied about it, and that is (or at least should be) a no-no for a newsman.  But none of us are perfect, and other newsmen have lied about more substantial things, and managed to keep their careers, so I also think that it's probably being blown out of proportion. 

[11B4V]

What decorations is he claiming with the intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit make this a stolen valor issue?