Pediatrician Refuses To Care For Baby With Lesbian Mothers In Michigan

[Jacob]

Weird. I find myself agreeing with him a lot. I remember Dorsey as a disagreeable jerkass. 

... not gonna touch that one.

[Martinus]

 

[dps]

Is it wrong?

It's complicated.  But there is nothing really gray about using outright physical force and unequally enforced laws to suppress voting.  That is not legal or legitimate.

It is a gray area whether or not it is legal in all cases--I would argue that it can be. Voter suppression and intimidation has a long history in this country (certainly not just against women and blacks), and for something to be illegal it must both be against the law and more arguably enforced/enforceable.

I agree it isn't legitimate, but do you think it is legitimate to prohibit women or blacks from voting at all?

FWIW, the secret ballot was not common in the early days, and it was considered controversial in part because it allowed people an out to vote without facing the sanction of their peers. People would gather at polling places for the day and monitor the vote.

Not that I should be speaking for Valmy, but it's complicated because the degree to which some members of society were legally barred from voting, and others were sort of semi-legally, uhm, "discouraged" from voting, and yet others were outright illegally prevented from voting by direct physical violence varied greatly at different times, and from state to state, and even from locale to locale within the same state.

[alfred russel]

Btw, is alfred russell really Dorsey?

Yup.

Weird. I find myself agreeing with him a lot. I remember Dorsey as a disagreeable jerkass. 

I've seen a lot of changing, in the way you feel about me, and in the way I feel about you... I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!

[Eddie Teach]

I changed into a different colored t-shirt.

[dps]

I changed into a different colored t-shirt.

Is someone wearing you?

[lustindarkness]

Ugh, new definition of skin tight shirts.

[The Brain]

Why the fuck would I change? Is it because I'm miserable?

[LaCroix]

the doctor had a belief and made a professional decision based on that belief. happens all the time. many people don't go into criminal defense because they can't stand the thought of representing certain types.

[Martinus]

the doctor had a belief and made a professional decision based on that belief. happens all the time. many people don't go into criminal defense because they can't stand the thought of representing certain types.

So, being a murderer = being a child of a lesbian in your book? Or are you saying that only because some form of discrimination may be justified, any discrimination is equally justified?

[LaCroix]

So, being a murderer = being a child of a lesbian in your book? Or are you saying that only because some form of discrimination may be justified, any discrimination is equally justified?

basically. discrimination is discrimination. some discrimination is socially acceptable while other discrimination isn't. i'm under the assumption the argument is she's immoral not necessarily because of her beliefs but because she acted on her beliefs by refusing professional service. if this is the argument, then it should be equally immoral for criminal defense attorneys to reject certain clients.

[Scipio]

Pediatrician Refuses To Care For Baby With Lesbian Mothers In Michigan

The Huffington Post  |  By Ed Mazza

A lesbian couple in Michigan says a pediatrician has refused to care for their infant because of their sexual orientation.

Krista and Jami Contreras said Dr. Vesna Roi of Eastlake Pediatrics in Roseville, Michigan, had initially agreed to be the pediatrician to their daughter, Bay. But after "much prayer," Roi had a change of heart.

When the couple brought their 6-day-old baby into the office for a wellness check-up, another doctor told them that Roi would not be seeing them after all, according to the Detroit Free Press.

"I was completely dumbfounded," Krista, who is the baby's biological mother, told the newspaper. "We just looked at each other and said, 'Did we hear that correctly?'"

The other doctor at the practice offered to care for the baby. The couple told the local Fox station that the second doctor also told them Roi didn't even come into the clinic that day because she didn't want to see them.

"As far as we know Bay doesn't have a sexual orientation yet so I'm not really sure what that matters," Jami told myFOXDetroit.com. "We're not your patient -- she's your patient. And the fact is that your job is to keep babies healthy and you can't keep a baby healthy that has gay parents?"

Roi later sent the couple a handwritten letter, which the Free Press posted online and can be seen below.

"After much prayer following your prenatal, I felt that I would not be able to develop the personal patient doctor relationship that I normally do with my patients," wrote Roi, who has an average of three out of five stars at Healthgrades and four out of five on Vitals based on limited reviews.

Roi apologized for not telling them in person, and said they were welcome in the clinic, but that Bay would have to be seen by the other doctor at the practice.

"Please know that I believe that God gives us free choice and I would never judge anyone based on what they do with that free choice," Roi wrote. "Again, I am sorry for the hurt and angry feelings that were created by this. I hope you can accept my apology."

Roi's decision may seem outrageous, but it's not illegal. The Free Press reports that while 22 states have laws prohibiting doctors from discriminating based on sexual orientation, Michigan is not one of them.

However, the American Medical Association's code of ethics says doctors should not refuse care based on race, gender or sexual orientation. Doctors can refuse specific treatments if they are incompatible with personal, religious or moral beliefs.

Roi has not been a member of the AMA since 2001, according to her website. She does belong to the American Academy of Pediatrics, which similarly urges members to practice nondiscrimination.

Krista and Jami Contreras, who were married in Vermont in 2012, told both MyFOXDetroit and the Free Press that they were going public to raise awareness and change the laws to protect families with same-sex parents.

"It was embarrassing, it was humiliating and here we are, new parents trying to protect her," Jami told myFOXDetroit. "And we know this happens in the world and we're completely prepared for this to happen other places. But not at our 6-day-old's wellness appointment."

Ok, I can get you can be a homophobic asshole and hate gay people because your dumbfuck religion tells you so. But given that we have a few people here who profess belief in God - could you explain to me how something like that is even remotely within the confines of acceptable behaviour under any moral system known to man?

Calvinism is a bitch.

[Scipio]

but how do you prevent the trend if you don't prevent the individual act?  everyone will point back that that clinic and say "it's allowed".

Of course, one doctor is hardly a problem, and she found them a replacement.  But I see a disturbing trend here, with medical care being applied according to one's religion.

Do you really want to be treated by a doctor who doesn't want to treat you?

We should do better at screening racists/homophobes out of the medical education system on the front end. I don't think the answer is for the government to prevent doctors from exercising discretion with regard to which patients they will and will not see.

It is fucking scary that I find myself agreeing with Fate about so many things.

[Martinus]

Again, my point was not "lock that bitch up" but "can you believe this bitch"?

Sure, if you think you would not give proper medical care to a baby because its mother is a lesbian, the baby is better off without your care - but if you think that, what kind of a human being are you in the first place?

I have supported a pro bono case done by my lawfirm for a muslim asylum seeker (I mainly did the research as I don't have litigation experience) and I did it to my best ability - I would never think of doing otherwise, despite being quite sceptical of islam. Of course if the muslim plaintiff was looking to do something I disagree with (say, challenging a halal slaughter ban) I would recuse myself but unless you are against babies of lesbians surviving, I just can't get myself into that bitch's mindset.

[Martinus]

I would feel the same way if a doctor refused to treat the baby because, say, its parents were Southern Baptists, or Republican or black.