Grand unified books thread

[jimmy olsen]

Wasn't the birth rate of Nazi Germany really high for a modern society, even for it's time?

Not at all.  Birth rates in Germany declined precipitously after WWI; the Nazi pro-natal programs stabilized the collapse, but that is about it.

If they had won though, wouldn't things have changed. With all those indoctrinated Hitler youth coming of age, wouldn't the child bearing population be willing to have more children.

[Neil]

If they had won though, wouldn't things have changed. With all those indoctrinated Hitler youth coming of age, wouldn't the child bearing population be willing to have more children.

That's hard to say without knowing more about a prospective postwar German economy.  Given that the German ideal seems to be to exterminate or enslave the population of Eastern Europe and replace them with German settlers, I'm not sure where the economic incentive to breed in large numbers would come from.

[barkdreg]

Hitler's Empire. Nazi Rule in Occupied Europe
by Mark Mazower.

[jimmy olsen]

If they had won though, wouldn't things have changed. With all those indoctrinated Hitler youth coming of age, wouldn't the child bearing population be willing to have more children.

That's hard to say without knowing more about a prospective postwar German economy.  Given that the German ideal seems to be to exterminate or enslave the population of Eastern Europe and replace them with German settlers, I'm not sure where the economic incentive to breed in large numbers would come from.

Does there need to be a real economic incentive? As long as the Nazi's wacked out ideology says so and they successfully indoctrinate the people it will be done.

[Ed Anger]

Reading the Red Victory by Lincoln. Enjoyable.

<----- My hero.

[Malthus]

Hitler's Empire. Nazi Rule in Occupied Europe
by Mark Mazower.

Heh, we've been discussing that for the last couple of pages ... 

[Admiral Yi]

Slugging through The Candy Bombers.  It's not terribly well written and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

But I have learned what a flaming appeaser Henry Wallace was.  I had thought he was just sort of the slave of Big Labor type of New Deal Democrat.  Also interesting to see George McGovern and Hubert Humphrey showing up in the Wallace camp.

[grumbler]

Reading the Red Victory by Lincoln. Enjoyable.

<----- My hero.

Sequel to Through War's Dark Passage?  I wasn't aware he had done another book.  Must get that one as well; the earlier ones are brilliant.

To Berk:  finally got around to Shattered Sword.  Got through all the planning discussions.  Interesting book, as you promised.  I am kinda surprised, though, that the authors are so far off in their knowledge of US strategy before the war, and the early operations of the US Navy in the Pacific.  They claim, for instance, that the US Asiatic Fleet was "destroyed."  Asiatic fleet lost 4 of 45 warships and 15 of 23 patrol and auxiliary ships.  That's not "destruction."

Their stuff on the Japanese, though, is gold.  There isn't a lot new on the information side if one has read H.P. Wilmott, but they have a lot more analysis than Wilmott had, and that is really what is more important.

Thanks for the steer.

[Malthus]

To Berk:  finally got around to Shattered Sword.  Got through all the planning discussions.  Interesting book, as you promised.  I am kinda surprised, though, that the authors are so far off in their knowledge of US strategy before the war, and the early operations of the US Navy in the Pacific.  They claim, for instance, that the US Asiatic Fleet was "destroyed."  Asiatic fleet lost 4 of 45 warships and 15 of 23 patrol and auxiliary ships.  That's not "destruction."

Their stuff on the Japanese, though, is gold.  There isn't a lot new on the information side if one has read H.P. Wilmott, but they have a lot more analysis than Wilmott had, and that is really what is more important.

Thanks for the steer.

I looked at Shattered Sword as well, found it a shade too advanced and technical for my level of knowledge. Maybe I'll give it another go.

[Ed Anger]

Reading the Red Victory by Lincoln. Enjoyable.

<----- My hero.

Sequel to Through War's Dark Passage?  I wasn't aware he had done another book.  Must get that one as well; the earlier ones are brilliant.

I hadn't read the earlier books. 

here is what Amazon sez:

The final volume in a trilogy encompassing events preceding the tsar's fall ( In War's Dark Shadow, LJ 5/1/83), the Russian Revolution ( Passage Through Armageddon, LJ 9/15/86), and the civil war. Covering 1917-21, this weaves together military, political, and social history to describe the Bolshevik triumph over internal conflict to defeat the disparate White opposition and uncertain Allied forces which attacked from all sides. The strength of this and preceding volumes is Lincoln's ability to convert complex, confusing events into lively, compelling human drama, comprehensible to a wide readership. Lincoln employs a wealth of primary sources and contemporary scholarly research, but his survey is aimed at the general reader and beginning student. He succeeds quite well. More popular and expansive than Evan Mawdsley's The Russian Civil War (Allen & Unwin, 1987), this is recommended for general and undergraduate collections.

Plus, it is only 44 cents or so before shipping.

[grumbler]

I looked at Shattered Sword as well, found it a shade too advanced and technical for my level of knowledge. Maybe I'll give it another go.

You have to like to see how strategy is made, and how doctrine, tradition, and tactics implement strategy, to like the book.  The basic premise is that the key decisions made in the battle can only be understood if you understand something about the way the decision-makers thought about how they were supposed to be behaving under the circumstances.  Nagumo hates his job and knows it is over his head, but since the only other job he could take is a non-combat job, he would rather stay where he is and fail than transfer and be thought a coward.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job, but won't rock the boat to get his preferred commander because he barely got approval for the operation to begin with, and Nagumo has friends.  That kinda stuff.

Edit:  And it assumes that you know what a "deck cycle" is without getting an explanation, because you ain't getting one! 

[Malthus]

I looked at Shattered Sword as well, found it a shade too advanced and technical for my level of knowledge. Maybe I'll give it another go.

You have to like to see how strategy is made, and how doctrine, tradition, and tactics implement strategy, to like the book.  The basic premise is that the key decisions made in the battle can only be understood if you understand something about the way the decision-makers thought about how they were supposed to be behaving under the circumstances.  Nagumo hates his job and knows it is over his head, but since the only other job he could take is a non-combat job, he would rather stay where he is and fail than transfer and be thought a coward.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job, but won't rock the boat to get his preferred commander because he barely got approval for the operation to begin with, and Nagumo has friends.  That kinda stuff.

Edit:  And it assumes that you know what a "deck cycle" is without getting an explanation, because you ain't getting one! 

I love all that strategic stuff, but things like in your edit dented my ability to understand it. It seemed to me at least to be written with someone with at least some professional-level knowledge of naval matters in mind.

[jimmy olsen]

.  Yamamoto knows nagumo is over his head and that Kurita is the man for the job

Kurita is always the man for the job.

[Ed Anger]

[jimmy olsen]

Come on! That's fucking nerd gold right there.

After all House Kurita is directly descended from that Admiral.