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Total War: Warhammer is coming

Started by Solmyr, January 14, 2015, 06:12:22 AM

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Josquius

Quote from: Jacob on May 19, 2021, 12:08:24 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 19, 2021, 07:35:27 AM
GW is kinda going to bring back some of the Warhammer world in tabletop form I understand, but they only talk of the Old World so apparently not all of it.

I don't know if it's going to be enough to pull me back in. I'm finding that GW's aesthetic has continually evolved in a different direction than mine in the last decade. Oathmark is more my speed these days.
I've never heard of this. Looks interesting.
Trouble is with all these warhammer competitors is GW just have too big a hold on things as the default fantasy miniature wargame. Cracking that to any sizable level outside of historic stuff has been tried many times and they often just wither away.
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The Brain

Quote from: Solmyr on May 20, 2021, 03:11:53 AM
Also Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is in its fourth edition currently and seems to be doing well. And of course many people still play the second edition (we don't talk about the third).

Yeah, I play 4th online. 2nd was great, didn't play 1st (that was before I got really into Warhammer), and 3rd was weird and I never touched it.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

The Brain

When you see Warhammer Fantasy Battle models renamed weird crap like Orruk and stuff it's like "look how they massacred my boy!".
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Threviel on May 20, 2021, 03:44:22 AM
Also reading Tolkien and then being able to have an Orc, Dwarven or Elven army is a great introduction to drag new players in and then introduce them to the rest of the lore.

Reading Tolkien and then having a Aelfari or whatever army is just nothing. And won't drag anyone in to read the underwhelming lore.
Not a fan of the WH40k rebrandings, but I think Asur and Drucchi sound suitably Tolkienesque. Certainly sounds better than High Elves and Dark Elves.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Threviel

Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 20, 2021, 06:03:18 AM
Quote from: Threviel on May 20, 2021, 03:44:22 AM
Also reading Tolkien and then being able to have an Orc, Dwarven or Elven army is a great introduction to drag new players in and then introduce them to the rest of the lore.

Reading Tolkien and then having a Aelfari or whatever army is just nothing. And won't drag anyone in to read the underwhelming lore.
Not a fan of the WH40k rebrandings, but I think Asur and Drucchi sound suitably Tolkienesque. Certainly sounds better than High Elves and Dark Elves.

We must agree to disagree there. High- and Dark Elves in the style of Warhammer inherits a lot from DnD. Tolkien only had one dark elf and evil elves are very very rare in his world.

Warhammer was a collection of fantasy tropes from a lot of sources in a world built by history nerds, wherever you came from there was something for you there.
Tolkien puritan? Check!
DnD nerd? Check!
Vampire nerd? Check!
History nerd? Check!
and so and so forth...

Much of that is lost with the aelves, duardin, orruks and whatever in a magical pretend world with no historical parallels. It's just uninteresting and bland.

Josquius

Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 20, 2021, 06:03:18 AM
Quote from: Threviel on May 20, 2021, 03:44:22 AM
Also reading Tolkien and then being able to have an Orc, Dwarven or Elven army is a great introduction to drag new players in and then introduce them to the rest of the lore.

Reading Tolkien and then having a Aelfari or whatever army is just nothing. And won't drag anyone in to read the underwhelming lore.
Not a fan of the WH40k rebrandings, but I think Asur and Drucchi sound suitably Tolkienesque. Certainly sounds better than High Elves and Dark Elves.
They do sound tolkeinesque. But in a way that's only really obvious to the fan boys. Most people who have just watched the films, maybe read Lord of the rings once, won't see that
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Razgovory

At least two names are taken directly from Tolkien with minor change in spelling.

Aenarion (dead elf king) is from Anarion  (dead Gondor king)

Tyrion (elf prince) is from Tirion (some ancient city).

Names are hard to come up with, and GW often took names from pretty much everywhere.  There are countries called "Araby" and "Cathay".  There's a man-sized bipedal lizard who rides a pterodactyl name Tic-Tac-Toe.  Etc.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Syt

I'm still amused by the use of German names and esp. the transformation of Schleswig-Holstein into Holswig-Schliestein.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.
—Stephen Jay Gould

Proud owner of 42 Zoupa Points.

Josquius

It's one of the great things of warhammer, especially 40k,is when it was founded it was purposefully casual and silly. But over the years it has developed to become ever more serious... But with much of the silly stuff hanging on and hard to purge.

The history of games workshop does strike me as a potentially interesting book. Or a farsical mini series.
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The Brain

The Warhammer world and 40k settings are great. Everything cool has been thrown in there in a way that is easily recognizable (Tolkien, Moorcock, history, Judge Dredd comics, Dune etc...), but there's still subtlety to the world, especially 40k. For years I've had the impression that 40k is drifting towards an unsubtle good vs evil setting, and I think Rick Priestly made a similar comment a while back in Wargames Illustrated. This makes the (modern version of the) 40k setting less interesting to me.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Jacob

Quote from: Tyr on May 20, 2021, 03:59:48 AM
've never heard of this. Looks interesting.
Trouble is with all these warhammer competitors is GW just have too big a hold on things as the default fantasy miniature wargame. Cracking that to any sizable level outside of historic stuff has been tried many times and they often just wither away.

Depends what problem you're solving for, I think.

I have a bunch of minis (some of them painted even). I buy minis I like and occassionally play games with rulesets I like. So stuff like Oathmark (or Warlords of Erewhon, Dragon Rampant, Saga etc) are cool as far as I'm concerned because the rulesets are interestings and sometimes they lead to miniatures I like too (either directly, or because 3rd parties manufacture to support them). So as far as I'm concerned, there's no trouble... it truly is a golden age for miniatures and tabletop rulesets right now.

I mean, one example: there's a growing scene for Minihammer (folks playing older versions of WFB scaled down to use 10 mm minis). I reckon it's pretty close that you can field any 8th edition army in 10 mm these days even without going to old Warmaster minis.

It's only trouble if you're looking to somehow replace GW's Warhammer with something else - but personally I don't care about that either way.

And yeah, Age of Sigmar looks like it's going strong - moving into 3rd edition soon by the looks of it.

As for Warhammer: Old World (IIRC that's the title for the "bring back the Old World and a rank & flank ruleset" development) I think there are two things driving it:

1) Total War and other videogames are showing there's still plenty of value in the Old World IP.

2) The continued growth of the non-GW minis and wargaming segment of the scene shows that by abandoning the Old World and rank & flank, GW left money on the table. This is their attempt to re-colonize that area of the hobby (historical-ish and/ or Tolkienesque fantasy).

We'll see how it goes. Personally I'm paying attention for nostalgia reasons, but realistically I doubt I'll go in. GW's churn speed is too fast for how I do the hobby. By the time I'm ready, my selected army is now underpowered due to Codex churn/ new rules/ new models which is just annoying. And aesthetically the last many years of GW minis are far to flanderized for my tastes.

Jacob

Quote from: The Brain on May 20, 2021, 04:05:15 AM
When you see Warhammer Fantasy Battle models renamed weird crap like Orruk and stuff it's like "look how they massacred my boy!".

Indeed. I mean, I can mostly get by it... it's still the Imperial Guard in 40K as far as I'm concenred. And if I ever did buy an "Orruk" it'd still be an Ork to me.


Razgovory

They just released trailer for the last DLC to fix the most broken faction in the game: Beastmen.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

jimmy olsen

It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point