11 dead in French satirical magazine shooting

[CountDeMoney]

I am not hating on the cop - I am hating on the tweet (which clearly wasn't made by the cop). And only because Jacob, garbon & co. thought it appropriate to tout it around as a cause celebre for their side. So I am just saying the implication hidden in the tweet is troubling.

Would it make you feel better if Voltaire had said it instead?  Because he did.

edit:  Allegedly.  Maybe. 

[Martinus]

I am not hating on the cop - I am hating on the tweet (which clearly wasn't made by the cop). And only because Jacob, garbon & co. thought it appropriate to tout it around as a cause celebre for their side. So I am just saying the implication hidden in the tweet is troubling.

Would it make you feel better if Voltaire had said it instead?  Because he did.

edit:  Allegedly.  Maybe. 

Again, the distinction between the cop and "Voltaire" is that Voltaire did not have a legal duty to protect the safety of someone he disagreed with. A cop does. That's the point I have spelled out several times over in this thread.

[Martinus]

What, are you now saying that the majority of French muslims are ok with gay marriage? 

Why are you saying that a Muslim cop would consider them an "abomination"?  I mean, other than the fact that you're a overly-shrill, hyperbolic cock socket, that is.

I was just quoting the Bible. Couldn't use the proper term from the Quran as my copy has not arrived yet, but I will make sure to use the right word from there in future when I get it. Can't imagine, though, it is markedly more tolerant about homosexuality than the Bible.

[dps]

What, are you now saying that the majority of French muslims are ok with gay marriage? 

Why are you saying that a Muslim cop would consider them an "abomination"?  I mean, other than the fact that you're a overly-shrill, hyperbolic cock socket, that is.

I was just quoting the Bible. Couldn't use the proper term from the Quran as my copy has not arrived yet, but I will make sure to use the right word from there in future when I get it. Can't imagine, though, it is markedly more tolerant about homosexuality than the Bible.

He didn't ask you what the Quran says;  he asked you about what the dead cop thought.

And obviously, none of us (including whoever sent out that tweet) actually know what he thought.  I gotta think a lot of people are projecting here.

[Duque de Bragança]

today on our radio came the conclusion (by a cultural muslim) that one of the giant factors for this bullshit are the Saoudi-petrodollars at work in spreading their vile wahabism/salafism. And one of the actions needed to diminish the threat of more episodes like this one following is disallowing the saoudi's (or anyone like them) to fund, spread or otherwise insinuate their doctrine in our countries, or for that matter: anywhere else in the world that's not their own shithole of a country.

So our response should be to ban attempts to spread ideas we don't agree with?  Sort of like how Russia has banned advocating for gay rights?

Sorry, no.  That shit might fly in Europe or Quebec, but in the US we'll left idiots spout bad ideas, and counter them by advocating good ideas.

Apples and oranges, surveillance of radical imams and banning of hate speech in mosques is hardly comparable to (self)censuring cartoons in a satirical newspaper.
Given the above mentioned cartoons were seldom reprinted in the major US media (Washington Post, NYT), colour me skeptical for the much-vaunted US free speech. Free speech for self-censorship, yes.

Seriously?  Do you guys print a lot of cartoons from Botswana?  Indonesia?  And I'm sorry but his is not apples and oranges,  The only difference is one is spreading ideas that you are receptive to and the other is spreading ideas you don't like.

Basement troll a.k.a known Defender of the Faiths, islamist apologist extraordinaire, should document himself better (as in not talking about out of his ass) about Courrier International for once which is known for printing articles and cartoons from all over the world. They're not the only ones, remember when Charlie Hebdo reprinted the Mohamed cartoons from Jylland Post?

http://www.courrierinternational.com/galerie/2014/12/28/cartoons-l-annee-2014-vue-en-40-dessins-de-presse

2014 seen through 40 press cartoons: Mexico, South Sudan, Thailand/Lebanon, Albania for instance

Another link just for you

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article/2015/01/10/menaces-sur-les-cartoonistes-turcs

"Threats on Turkish cartoonists"
Say thanks to your beloved Erdogan

En Turquie comme dans de très nombreux pays, l'attentat contre Charlie Hebdo a suscité une vague de solidarité. Notamment parmi les confrères des dessinateurs assassinés, relève le site d'information sur le Moyen-Orient Al-Monitor.

Le 7 janvier, un journaliste du magazine satirique Leman tweetait une photo de Wolinski, en pleine séance de croquis lors d'une visite à Istanbul, et demandait : "Cet homme est-il l'ennemi de l'islam ?".

Parmi les nombreuses vignettes venues de Turquie, Al-Monitor relève celle du cartooniste Musa Kart, publiée par CumHuriyet, dans laquelle il croque le président turc Erdogan, disant : "Je condamne cette attaque. Une peine de 10 ans pour ces dessinateurs aurait suffi."

Une attitude courageuse, explique Pinar Tremblay, la chroniqueuse d'Al-Monitor, car Musa Kart a déjà été poursuivi de nombreuse fois par le président. "En Turquie, les dessinateurs ne sont pas protégés, confie un autre caricaturiste. Si la liberté d'expression n'est pas garantie, certains pourraient s'inspirer de l'attaque inhumaine contre Charlie Hebdo et tenter de les reproduire".

Ils n'ont pas écouté les avertissements

Or, Pinar Tremblay s'inquiète des réactions qu'elle voit émerger dans la société turque, mais aussi dans la presse. Comme celle du journal de droite Yeni Akit. "Je n'envisagerais jamais de participer à une telle attaque, ni d'inciter quelqu'un à la violence. Mais quand on me demande si je la condamne, je réponds : attendez un instant. Parce qu'ils ont ridiculisé l'islam avec leurs dessins. Ils ont méprisé et dénigré le prophète. Leur ligne éditoriale était carrément fondée sur la moquerie. Ils n'ont pas écouté les avertissements de ceux qui les appelaient à changer de trajectoire. Alors, le jour où il leur arrive quelque chose, pourquoi s'attendre à des condamnations de notre part ?"

L'inquiétude vient aussi du web, poursuit Pinar Tremblay, où des groupes de supporters du président Erdogan, qui se font appeler "AK-trolls", c'est-à-dire les trolls [du parti] AKP" diffusent des messages déroutants. "Le pire dans ce groupe a été un tweet du compte @GizliArsiv, qui menaçait Leman : 'Que cette attaque vous serve de leçon'. A noter, relève la chroniqueuse, que les griefs de cet internaute ne concernaient pas les offenses du magazine à l'égard de l'islam ou du prophète, mais Erdogan." Enfin, si la plupart de ces "AK-trolls" sont anonymes, ce n'est pas le cas d'un chroniqueur du journal Vahdet Daily, Ibrahim Yoruk, qui a tweeté, à l'adresse d'un autre magazine satirique, Penguen : "Apprenez de leurs erreurs : il ne peut pas y avoir d'humour concernant la foi islamique."

Certes, "en Turquie, les dessinateurs ont l'habitude de la violence, y compris des incendies criminels et des tirs contre leurs bureaux, conclut Pinar Tremblay. Mais, alors que nous vivons un deuil majeur, il est effrayant de constater un tel degré de colère, aussi flagrante et insatiable."

Exec summary

- Wolinski, one the murdered cartoonists used Turkey as in inspiration


"Is this man the enemy of Islam?"
-  Select Cartoon: Erdogan stating: "I condemn the Paris attack over the cartoons, 10 years in jail for those cartoonists would have been enough".
- "They had it coming" people over there as well
- Turkey also has pro-Erdogan trolls (sorry it's no longer a Languish exclusive)

[CountDeMoney]

I gotta think a lot of people are projecting here.

A lot of people are being overly and purposefully obtuse as well, but hey, this is Languish.

[mongers]

I gotta think a lot of people are projecting here.

A lot of people are being overly and purposefully obtuse as well, but hey, this is Languish.

Yeah, this the Languish way.

Too many people on their high horses, occupying the high ground and taking a moral position, that there aren't enough people on the ground shovelling the shit outta the way to keep things running.   

[mongers]

Astonishing that leaders from Turkey and Egypt (F.M.), amongst others repressive regimes represented, have the gall to attend this demonstration.

Especially as the same old stuff continues to roll in their countries, today:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/120051.aspx

Egypt student gets 3-year jail term for atheism
Twenty-one year-old Egyptian student to appeal three year sentence for Atheism
AFP , Sunday 11 Jan 2015

An Egyptian court has sentenced a student to three years in jail for announcing on Facebook that he is an atheist and for insulting Islam, his lawyer said Sunday.
 
Karim El-Banna, a 21-year-old whose own father testified against him, was jailed by a court in the Nile Delta province of Baheira on Saturday, lawyer Ahmed Abdel Nabi told AFP.
 
"He was handed down a three-year prison sentence, and if he pays a bail of 1,000 Egyptian pounds ($ 140 or 117 euros) the sentence can be suspended until a verdict is issued by an appeals court," Abdel Nabi said, adding that an appeal was to be heard on March 9.
 
Abdel Nabi said his client's father had testified against his son, charging that he "was embracing extremist ideas against Islam".
 
Banna's name had appeared in a list of known atheists in a local daily after which his neighbours harassed him, said Ishaq Ibrahim, a researcher on religion and beliefs at the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights.
 
When Banna went to file a complaint against them at a police station, he was accused of insulting Islam and arrested, said Ibrahim, who has been tracking Banna's case.
 
Banna has been in custody since November.
 
In December 2012, a 27-year-old blogger, Alber Saber, was sentenced to three years in jail on charges of blasphemy.
 
And last June, a Coptic Christian man was sentenced to six years in jail for insulting Islam.
 
The authorities have stepped up measures, including organising workshops, to counter atheism.
 
Egypt's constitution outlaws insults against the three recognised monotheist religions -- Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

[The Brain]

Well, it was necessary to execute the sons of Brutus.

[Martinus]

Hey mongers, stop with all that racism. Only because 95% of governments in predominantly Muslim countries do something does not mean any actual Muslim people actually support these actions.

[Sheilbh]

Thank God the military stepped in in Egypt.

[Martinus]

Thank God the military stepped in in Egypt.

[CountDeMoney]

Hey mongers, stop with all that racism. Only because 95% of governments in predominantly Muslim countries do something does not mean any actual Muslim people actually support these actions.

Says the guy from Sarcastikstan.

[mongers]

Somewhat incidently, perhaps the major reason why most if not all major UK newspapers and TV channels haven't reproduced much of CH. cartoons is someone in this country has already been convicted of distributing religiously offensive cartoons.

Background, a few years ago we ceased to have Blasphemy laws, because these had been replaced by a racial and religious hatred act in 2006.

This is the second conviction for this man, it's not immediately clear which piece of legislation he was prosecuted under, but I'd be interested if any lawyer here could clarify this, as the various news reports vary somewhat from one another:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8640048.stm

John Lennon Airport sexual image atheist gets Asbo

A "militant atheist" who left explicit images in a prayer room at Liverpool John Lennon Airport has been given a six-month suspended sentence.

Harry Taylor, 59, of Salford, left images of religious figures in sexual poses on three occasions in 2008.

Jurors found him guilty of causing religiously aggravated intentional harassment, alarm or distress in March.

He was also given a five-year Anti-social Behaviour Order (Asbo) at Liverpool Crown Court.

Among the posters, one image showed a smiling crucified Christ next to an advert for a brand of "no nails" glue.

In another, Islamic suicide bombers at the gates of paradise were told: "Stop, stop, we've run out of virgins."

Taylor, of Griffin Street, in Higher Broughton, told jurors he was sexually abused by Catholic priests as a youngster.

Insults to Islam

But he said he bore no grudge against people of faith and claimed he was merely trying to convert believers to atheism.

Some of his cartoons went far beyond exercising freedom of expression, prosecutor Neville Biddle said.

One image showed a pig excreting sausages with insults to Islam, and others linked Muslims to attacks on airports.

The chaplain at the airport was "severely distressed" by the discoveries, the court heard.

Taylor was convicted of similar offences in 2006.

There were dramatic scenes at the sentencing hearing.

While Judge Charles James told Taylor's barrister Brigid Baillie he was considering making him pay costs, the defendant began wheezing.

Judge James adjourned the hearing for 10 minutes for a first-aider to be called.

Taylor left the court room but returned shortly afterwards.

Judge James said: "Not only have you shown no remorse for what you did, but even now you continue to maintain that you have done nothing wrong and say that whenever you feel like it you intend to do the same thing again in the future."

Taylor's Asbo bans him from carrying religiously offensive material in a public place.

The six-month prison sentence was suspended for two years. Taylor was also ordered to undertake 100 hours of unpaid work and pay £250 costs.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, I saw that before. They hate the likes of Front Nationale as much as they hate Islamists.

Which is fine - I feel exactly the same way.

I think they might mean Islamaphobes.   

Uhm, Front Nationale = Islamophobes.

Okay. I don't think you grasped what I said.