11 dead in French satirical magazine shooting

[11B4V]

So the Pope says if you talk about his mother, you can expect a punch in the nose.   Holy shit, stop the presses.

You know that there is such a thing as context, right?

Not on Languish there isn't.

[Siege]

Dude, the point is that the prescence of an armed civilian population would make the terrorists think twice. They always try to maximize their chances by choosing soft targets.

It also increases the chances of something stupid happening when one of the now armed civilians only thinks once.

Armed civilians thinking anyone who looks like a "Muslim" could be a terrorist - what could possibly go wrong?

Even the numbers of civies carrying by ccw's is a low percentage of the population. Rather inconsequential really, even to make an effective argument for an armed populace. Do you as a civilian really want to be engaging those fuck nards when responding units are arriving???????? Do you think that is a brilliant plan? You are most and likely going to get dead.


FWIW page 9
http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Concealed-Carry-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf

If I was carrying when something like this went down, I do think I would at least see if I could come up with a way of taking them by surprise, perhaps.

Of course, the difficulty in hitting a human target with a handgun at anything more than very short range is pretty problematic. It would be very hard to get to a range short enough to make a surprise kill without being seen.


edit: What I mean is, even if you are a cop with reasonable training, and this is going down and the bad guys don't even know you are there, it would STILL be very hard to do more than increase the body count by one (your own). Still, I think I would be compelled to try at least...

I think you can do a lot with a handgun against terrorists.

1) With some simple training you can become combat effective with a handgun within 50m. That is reasonable range to take out terrorists in a urban enviroment, especially inside a building. Take cover as the shooting begins, deep breathe and carefully scan for targets. Upon target detection select the target most dangeorous to YOU while side tracking the other targets. Carefully adquire target number one. Engage target with at least two rounds. After you fire your position is giving away so quick adquire and engage the other targets until they are all on the ground and bleeding. After that reload no matter if you still have round in your mag, stand up, and at walking speed, not running, move toward the targets while engaging any that still moves. When you are on top of them empty your mag on them, then kick the weapons away from the dead bodies. Secure location nearest covered position from a kneeling position just in case there are more jihadis, and wait for police to arribe. Upon police nearing your position drop your weapon on the ground, show your empty hands to the police and identify to the police while not blocking their field of view.

2- Even if you cannot effectively engage the jihadis droping them, your fire will suppress their position and eliminate their freedom of movement, allowing time for nearby civilians to escape. Something as simple as firing a few rounds from your gun would make the jihadis to abandon their plan A, forcing them into their contigency plans, which are not their prefered course of action.

[Barrister]

I think you can do a lot with a handgun against terrorists.

1) With some simple training you can become combat effective with a handgun within 50m. That is reasonable range to take out terrorists in a urban enviroment, especially inside a building. Take cover as the shooting begins, deep breathe and carefully scan for targets. Upon target detection select the target most dangeorous to YOU while side tracking the other targets. Carefully adquire target number one. Engage target with at least two rounds. After you fire your position is giving away so quick adquire and engage the other targets until they are all on the ground and bleeding. After that reload no matter if you still have round in your mag, stand up, and at walking speed, not running, move toward the targets while engaging any that still moves. When you are on top of them empty your mag on them, then kick the weapons away from the dead bodies. Secure location nearest covered position from a kneeling position just in case there are more jihadis, and wait for police to arribe. Upon police nearing your position drop your weapon on the ground, show your empty hands to the police and identify to the police while not blocking their field of view.

2- Even if you cannot effectively engage the jihadis droping them, your fire will suppress their position and eliminate their freedom of movement, allowing time for nearby civilians to escape. Something as simple as firing a few rounds from your gun would make the jihadis to abandon their plan A, forcing them into their contigency plans, which are not their prefered course of action.

Siege, think about all the training that you have done in order to do what you do.  Do you think it likely that a civillian is going to do enough training to be able to respond in the manner you suggest?

[viper37]

Siege, think about all the training that you have done in order to do what you do.  Do you think it likely that a civillian is going to do enough training to be able to respond in the manner you suggest?

sure, all it takes is 50 minutes training!

Seriously, this is the most likely scenario:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paris-terror-attack-simulation-conducted-in-texas-by-gun-group/

[Siege]

"Training does not matter, only experience."

Or so told me an Iraqi company commander back in 2010 when I was trying to get him and his leutenants to train with us on counter-sniper operations. I wonder if they survived ISIS.

[The Brain]

Rosa Klebb had a more mature view.

[Razgovory]

I am a little hard pressed to see what good a side arm would do in case someone blows up the building you are in.

[crazy canuck]

I am a little hard pressed to see what good a side arm would do in case someone blows up the building you are in.

Fulfilling the gun nut oath "I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"?

[Eddie Teach]

Would the gun survive the explosion intact?

[Razgovory]

I wonder if they can take the gun from your hand if you are alive but the hand is is across the room.

[DGuller]

I wonder if they can take the gun from your hand if you are alive but the hand is is across the room.

I guess it depends on how warm it is?

[Razgovory]

Can they sew those back on?  If so, you can put it on ice and pry the gun out then.

[DGuller]

Can they sew those back on?  If so, you can put it on ice and pry the gun out then.

If you think about it, that saying probably wasn't meant to cover the traumatic amputation situation.  Whether you can pry the gun from that hand or not is largely immaterial;  you can always just take the gun with the hand attached to it with you, and work on it methodically in the comfort of your own home.

[mongers]

Can they sew those back on?  If so, you can put it on ice and pry the gun out then.

If you think about it, that saying probably wasn't meant to cover the traumatic amputation situation.  Whether you can pry the gun from that hand or not is largely immaterial;  you can always just take the gun with the hand attached to it with you, and work on it methodically in the comfort of your own home.

Handy to know.

[mongers]

Somewhat ineffectual 'lone wolf/nutter/wanker' attack on French soldiers guarding a Jewish centre in Nice:

French soldiers wounded in Nice Jewish centre attack

A man wielding a knife has attacked three soldiers patrolling outside a Jewish community centre in Nice, in the south of France.

The soldiers were wounded and police said the assailant was captured.

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi told French TV that a second man had been arrested in connection with the stabbing.

The attacker was expelled from Turkey last week and questioned upon his return, French media reported.

France has been on high alert since last month's terror attacks in Paris by three Islamist gunmen, in which 17 people were killed.

After the attacks, 10,500 soldiers were deployed outside sensitive sites including Jewish and Muslim centres as well as media buildings.

The soldiers attacked in Nice were guarding a building in the city's Massena square which houses the Jewish community centre and a Jewish radio station.

The attacker had been travelling on the tram without a ticket, but left the tram when ticket collectors approached him and he then targeted the soldiers.

He slashed one soldier in the cheek, injured another in the leg and a third on the chin, reports said.

He tried to escape but was caught by a shop owner, tram workers and police patrolling nearby.

...

Full item here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31118020

Police on guard outside the Jewish Community Centre in Nice as part of France's heightened security presence

I like the fact members of the public got involved in catching him.