Europe's Populist Left

[Sheilbh]

What's an EBA?  You're saying the ECB and [unknown acronym] decide whether a given sovereign counts in capital?  OK.  Didn't know that.

European Banking Authority.

Edit: Although apparently they don't. It's just an ECB job. The EBA get involved with stress tests etc.

Yep. So Greek debt, for example, was discounted to 60% of face value for capital requirements.

Fair enough.  Which is the same effect more fiscal space would have. 

It mitigates it for longer

Obviously that alone isn't enough. They need everything possible to stimulate demand, but it's a start and the least reformist leaders should get. Berlusconi I'm inclined to agree should be forced to cut and reform.

[Admiral Yi]

I thought the ECB was accepting Greek sovereigns at 60% for purposes of collateral, not capital.  Not terribly important either way.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The whole Greek crisis got me thinking whether we should re-evaluate our moral attitudes towards money lending and borrowing.

Greece has gone bankrupt five times since 1820, was prevented of going bankrupt after WW2 thanks to the Marshall Plan (apparently) and again (but maybe not for much longer) by the money that was thrown at it by the Troika.

If there is one thing anyone should have learnt is Greece is not worth anyones money.

[Razgovory]

Hey Yi, do you think you could recap what your point is on all this?  What exactly is your beef?

[Admiral Yi]

I could.

[Ed Anger]

Make 'em beg. Then don't deliver.

[Razgovory]

It's really fucking confusing when three people have the same avatar.

[Eddie Teach]

It's really fucking confusing when three people have the same avatar.

So confusing you don't realize it's at least 4.

[Sheilbh]

Tsipras addressing the Greek Parliament. The laddy's not for turning.

Edit: Again I love that the current position is that the Greeks are broadly saying 'no we don't want anymore money, you've given us too much' and the rest of Europe is saying 'you have to take our money'

[Sheilbh]

Looking over what's been said this is a bit of a 'kick us out the Euro' speech. The alternatives have narrowed to concessions and a deal or Greek default and (probably) Grexit.

So the question for creditors is how much they lose.

[Martinus]

Didn't he just say "Greece needs a loan", though? At least so that on BBC.

[Tonitrus]

It's really fucking confusing when three people have the same avatar.

Agreed.

[Admiral Yi]

Tsipras addressing the Greek Parliament. The laddy's not for turning.

Edit: Again I love that the current position is that the Greeks are broadly saying 'no we don't want anymore money, you've given us too much' and the rest of Europe is saying 'you have to take our money'

It would be even more ironic if Greece weren't asking for money in the form of a write off as opposed to a new lending tranche.

[Sheilbh]

Didn't he just say "Greece needs a loan", though? At least so that on BBC.

Yeah, which is a concession of sorts.

Basically the Eurogroup have offered them €7 billion (or even up to €20 billion) under the old program if they extend that during the negotiation period. The Greeks say they won't and can't under their mandate, but as negotiations are likely to last until May/June (as both sides concede) they'll go bust without a bridging loan of €1.9 billion which they'll accept on new conditions. Though I think there's some ECB alternative too.

The problem was ultimately caused by the last government as Tsipras pointed out. In December the Eurozone wanted to give Greece enough money to get to June/July. The Samaras government rejected that and insisted on only taking two months worth to fuck with a new (Syriza) government/threaten the electorate by giving them a very short space in which to reach any deal.

[Sheilbh]

It would be even more ironic if Greece weren't asking for money in the form of a write off as opposed to a new lending tranche.

Again, they don't want a write off.