Ancient Babylonian Music

[Queequeg]

To my knowledge, that is true. "Carabela" is a type of small boat in Spanish (the one Columbus used in his first voyage), at the very least.

Huh.  Isn't it "caravel" in Spanish?

[Queequeg]

1520s, from Middle French caravelle (15c.), from Spanish carabela or Portuguese caravela, diminutive of caravo "small vessel," from Late Latin carabus "small wicker boat covered with leather," from Greek karabos, literally "beetle, lobster" (see scarab). Earlier form carvel (early 15c.) survives in carvel-built (adj.).

Hmm.  This was not what my Phonetics professor told me, but this was back in 2008 and my memory might not be completely accurate. 

[The Larch]

Say what? Basque and Spanish are nothing alike, and in no conceivable way do they sound alike. Basque sounds like fucking Klingon.

Also, while there was undoubtly some Basque-Castillian mixing early on I don't think that Basque influence was as great as you describe it, and you might be making the relatively common mistake of foreigners to associate the Kingdom of Navarre with Basqueness, which it was not.

You grew up knowing one language and being familiar with the other.  I've heard quite a bit of Basque, and I think the sound inventory sounds vaguely similar to Spanish. The structure very clearly isn't though, which is what you might be hearing.  The vowel system is basically the same.   

And I don't really think so.  Navarre was ethnically mixed, but I think its ethnic core was Basque.  IIRC Castile was settled partially by people from Asturias, and presumably some of the reconquered area would have had some remaining Mozarabic Romance-speaking population.

If you say to somebody from Navarre that their ethnic core is Basque there is a not insignificant chance that you'll end up lynched.

[Jacob]

If you say to somebody from Navarre that their ethnic core is Basque there is a not insignificant chance that you'll end up lynched.

"Wanna see my ethnic core, baby?" 

[Caliga]

I have no idea who that is.

Character in Game of Thrones.

That would explain why I don't know who it is then.

[garbon]

If you say to somebody from Navarre that their ethnic core is Basque there is a not insignificant chance that you'll end up lynched.

"Wanna see my ethnic core, baby?" 

[The Minsky Moment]

It's not clear if the song presented is Afro-Asiatic or not.  If it's Sumerian it isn't, if it's Akkadian or Assyrian it is releated to Arabic.  Still it probably doesn't sound like much like original language.  Like someone in reading a Russian song without any understanding of Russian.

Babylonian would presumably Akkadian, but Akkadian was very strongly influenced by the native Sumerian so I'm guessing it would sound quite a bit different from the quite conservative Afro-Asiatic languages of the deep desert.

Interesting theory but the link says this song was in Hurrian.

[The Minsky Moment]

How much do we even know about Sumerian's genetic relationships?

Generally speaking nearby mountain populations are going to be a lot more conservative.  Eastern Arab populations are going to reflect 1,400 years of the Arab slave trade and 3,000 years of migration of nomads from the deep desert, the steppe and Europe.  They'd probably look like Caucasians.  I think there's actually some evidence for this; Jews outside of the Beta Israel and Kaifeng populations (who have been, at least legally, endogamous for 2,500 years) are pretty closely grouped with Armenians and Turks.  There's also some evidence that Sumerians migrated to their core area from the north IIRC.

I'm confused here - is the question what the Sumerians might have looked like?  Because then the subsequent activities of nomads and slave traders would not be relevant.  (?)

Also - what is the evidence of Sumerian migration?  I had always understood Sumerian origins to be unknown.

[garbon]

It's not clear if the song presented is Afro-Asiatic or not.  If it's Sumerian it isn't, if it's Akkadian or Assyrian it is releated to Arabic.  Still it probably doesn't sound like much like original language.  Like someone in reading a Russian song without any understanding of Russian.

Babylonian would presumably Akkadian, but Akkadian was very strongly influenced by the native Sumerian so I'm guessing it would sound quite a bit different from the quite conservative Afro-Asiatic languages of the deep desert.

Interesting theory but the link says this song was in Hurrian.

I thought the link just said she was assisted by someone whose "notable blurb" is that they had composed music for that Hurrian hymn.

[Eddie Teach]

IDK if that's accurate.

Are the elbows too pointy for you?

[Agelastus]

It's not clear if the song presented is Afro-Asiatic or not.  If it's Sumerian it isn't, if it's Akkadian or Assyrian it is releated to Arabic.  Still it probably doesn't sound like much like original language.  Like someone in reading a Russian song without any understanding of Russian.

Babylonian would presumably Akkadian, but Akkadian was very strongly influenced by the native Sumerian so I'm guessing it would sound quite a bit different from the quite conservative Afro-Asiatic languages of the deep desert.

Interesting theory but the link says this song was in Hurrian.

The article says she was guided by the work of another music scholar who'd come up with a score for a Hurrian song*, the "Hymn to Nikkal"; the music in the link is an adaptation of another piece, "The Flood", presumably from an Akkadian version of the legend (although the article is unclear on this.)

*More accurately, judging by the link provided, came up with an interpretation of the known ancient score. So if she interpreted it incorrectly then the "influence" is incorrect as well.

[The Minsky Moment]

Ah I see it is all very unclear in the article.  The Babylonians used both Sumerian and Akkadian while at the same time speaking another language, so without further specification I don't know what to think.

[Queequeg]

How much do we even know about Sumerian's genetic relationships?

Generally speaking nearby mountain populations are going to be a lot more conservative.  Eastern Arab populations are going to reflect 1,400 years of the Arab slave trade and 3,000 years of migration of nomads from the deep desert, the steppe and Europe.  They'd probably look like Caucasians.  I think there's actually some evidence for this; Jews outside of the Beta Israel and Kaifeng populations (who have been, at least legally, endogamous for 2,500 years) are pretty closely grouped with Armenians and Turks.  There's also some evidence that Sumerians migrated to their core area from the north IIRC.

I'm confused here - is the question what the Sumerians might have looked like?  Because then the subsequent activities of nomads and slave traders would not be relevant.  (?)

Also - what is the evidence of Sumerian migration?  I had always understood Sumerian origins to be unknown.

I'm saying that they might have looked more like, say, Mandeans or Assyrians than a lot of Muslim Mashriq Arab populations.  As to origin of the Sumerians-I think a lot of the first relatively complex cultures of the ME are a bit further north.  The Halaf Culture, for instance.  Gobekli and whatnot are in contemporary Turkey.  I guess it's up for debate if the development of Sumer reflected migration or adoption and expansion of the "agricultural package" (domestication, pottery, beginnings of urban life.) 

[The Minsky Moment]

Their language isn't related to that of any of the likely exodus points and of course there is really no affirmative evidence of migration (that I know of).

In the lack of better evidence I would assume they were aboriginal.

[Queequeg]

Problem there is that there's no possible source of linguistic evidence.

I've heard some really vague reference to there being some proof of a substrate in Sumerian.  I also don't know if there's evidence that the Hurrians are native-there's some vague reference to their connection with modern North East Caucasians which could point either way.