Anders Breivic, Three Years On

[Viking]

I disagree here. Offense is taken, not given. Before moving on to deal with the "real" social problem of rudeness we need to deal with the entitlement many feel to not be offended. Offense (in addition to subversion) is and has always been the justification given to limit the free exchange of ideas.

You'r god does not exist. Your suffering is no greater than anybody else's. That idea you have is stupid. You yourself are primarily to blame for your own problems. etc. All these statements can always used to take offense. They are also the most important ones we need to be able to make to improve and better society.

One person's feelings and emotions should never be used as a justification to limit or prohibit speech. Outside of truth in advertising, incitement or encouragement of crime and possibly a few others; there should be no limits to the freedom of speech and the reduction of that freedom of speech is a greater evil than the hurt feelings of those who have just been told that their ideas, values or identity is silly or stupid.

[Tamas]

I agree with Viking and Sheilbh.

On Sheilbh's point, I am hoping that it is just a symptom of societies being fairly new to the combined effect of (relative) free spech and extraordinary easy access to all kinds of information, primarily from the "other camp".
We still need some maturing to do. Can we do that before this thing overwhelmes the less capable parts of our societies and we end up with a range of fascist regimes? I don't know.

[Martinus]

I disagree here. Offense is taken, not given. Before moving on to deal with the "real" social problem of rudeness we need to deal with the entitlement many feel to not be offended. Offense (in addition to subversion) is and has always been the justification given to limit the free exchange of ideas.

Who are you disagreeing with? Because I just said exactly the same, although with different words. 

[Sheilbh]

On Sheilbh's point, I am hoping that it is just a symptom of societies being fairly new to the combined effect of (relative) free spech and extraordinary easy access to all kinds of information, primarily from the "other camp".

I think certainly in the UK we're importing American culture wars, as is often the case their political culture is just a little bit ahead. I hope not because they're annoying and exhausting.

[Gups]

On Sheilbh's point, I am hoping that it is just a symptom of societies being fairly new to the combined effect of (relative) free spech and extraordinary easy access to all kinds of information, primarily from the "other camp".

I think certainly in the UK we're importing American culture wars, as is often the case their political culture is just a little bit ahead. I hope not because they're annoying and exhausting.

I don't agree. There are no culture wars here. The most angry disputes are about public spending priorities, the EU and specifically about the right of free movement within the EU. This is a political/policy dispute, not a cultural one. There are no quasi-religious disputes of any significance in the UK.

While debate is a bit more agressive than it was 10 years or so ago, they are much less unpleasant than in the 1960s-80s although the internet has made the debate much louder.

[Martinus]

I think the article from The Spectator I just posted in the UKIP thread is on to something - essentially the speed and volume with which we can broadcast our views and receive an immediate feedback is unparalleled by anything from the past, and this creates an echo chamber effect.

[garbon]

*For example, until recently, gay pride marches were reported on - even in the more liberal / left leaning mainstream media - by focusing on the freak show aspect. And since they could not find many freaks in Polish gay pride marches (which are usually more subdued and "normalised" affairs), they sometimes accompanied reports on, say, Warsaw pride (without any commentary) by stock footage from San Francisco or Berlin love parade. Clearly you can see how this can distort the public view of gays.

Ah, Marti the Tolerant.

[mongers]

Maybe we could change the thread title to something like "Norwegian bomb and gun massacre, three years on." ? 

As we're sort of perpetuating his name, infamy being in part what motivated him?

[The Brain]

Ah but this time we make him look like a balkantard.

[Martinus]

*For example, until recently, gay pride marches were reported on - even in the more liberal / left leaning mainstream media - by focusing on the freak show aspect. And since they could not find many freaks in Polish gay pride marches (which are usually more subdued and "normalised" affairs), they sometimes accompanied reports on, say, Warsaw pride (without any commentary) by stock footage from San Francisco or Berlin love parade. Clearly you can see how this can distort the public view of gays.

Ah, Marti the Tolerant.

Meh. These guys are freaks. And they revel in being freaks. I don't fault them for that - it's their choice and they have every right to do this. But what's the point in pretending they are normal? It insults them.

[Malthus]

*For example, until recently, gay pride marches were reported on - even in the more liberal / left leaning mainstream media - by focusing on the freak show aspect. And since they could not find many freaks in Polish gay pride marches (which are usually more subdued and "normalised" affairs), they sometimes accompanied reports on, say, Warsaw pride (without any commentary) by stock footage from San Francisco or Berlin love parade. Clearly you can see how this can distort the public view of gays.

Ah, Marti the Tolerant.

Meh. These guys are freaks. And they revel in being freaks. I don't fault them for that - it's their choice and they have every right to do this. But what's the point in pretending they are normal? It insults them.

Heh,"gay marriage" is the thing most likely to prove anathema to the freaks and homophobes alike. 

[Martinus]

*For example, until recently, gay pride marches were reported on - even in the more liberal / left leaning mainstream media - by focusing on the freak show aspect. And since they could not find many freaks in Polish gay pride marches (which are usually more subdued and "normalised" affairs), they sometimes accompanied reports on, say, Warsaw pride (without any commentary) by stock footage from San Francisco or Berlin love parade. Clearly you can see how this can distort the public view of gays.

Ah, Marti the Tolerant.

Meh. These guys are freaks. And they revel in being freaks. I don't fault them for that - it's their choice and they have every right to do this. But what's the point in pretending they are normal? It insults them.

Heh,"gay marriage" is the thing most likely to prove anathema to the freaks and homophobes alike. 

Exactly. It's all gentrification, picket fences and heteronorm.

[Malthus]

Exactly. It's all gentrification, picket fences and heteronorm.

Henceforth known as the "norm". 

Hell, there is a nice gay couple living one door up from me that meets this to a "T". We discussed leaf raking the other day.

[garbon]

*For example, until recently, gay pride marches were reported on - even in the more liberal / left leaning mainstream media - by focusing on the freak show aspect. And since they could not find many freaks in Polish gay pride marches (which are usually more subdued and "normalised" affairs), they sometimes accompanied reports on, say, Warsaw pride (without any commentary) by stock footage from San Francisco or Berlin love parade. Clearly you can see how this can distort the public view of gays.

Ah, Marti the Tolerant.

Meh. These guys are freaks. And they revel in being freaks. I don't fault them for that - it's their choice and they have every right to do this. But what's the point in pretending they are normal? It insults them.

I don't accept that there are just two options - normality (whatever that is) and freakdom.

[derspiess]

Marty is Normonormative.