Erdogan: All foreigners hate us, want our money, and to see our children die!

[Sheilbh]

If Erdogan is "only like Putin" then it means he can invade a neighbouring state - which would be a much bigger problem for the West than whatever Putin does in Ukraine.

Depends who he invades to be honest. As Viking points out the Turks took over North Cyprus while they were in NATO, Turkey and Greece have had little conflicts while both have been in NATO. It isn't necessarily a problem unless the retaliation led to an attack on Turkey which would make things far more difficult.

Turkey's foreign policy in the Middle East is disruptive and not terribly helpful. But it's nowhere near as problematic as Putin's.

[Viking]

If Erdogan is "only like Putin" then it means he can invade a neighbouring state - which would be a much bigger problem for the West than whatever Putin does in Ukraine.

Depends who he invades to be honest. As Viking points out the Turks took over North Cyprus while they were in NATO, Turkey and Greece have had little conflicts while both have been in NATO. It isn't necessarily a problem unless the retaliation led to an attack on Turkey which would make things far more difficult.

Turkey's foreign policy in the Middle East is disruptive and not terribly helpful. But it's nowhere near as problematic as Putin's.

That said, he's ticking all the other boxes. He's adding conspiracy to paranoia to radical ideology to inventing his own facts and reality to identifying the jews as the enemy to a preference for the gigantic.

Fernandez-Kirchner, Putin, Erdogan and Chavez all share the traits of re-writing the constitution to stay in and expand their power, short term economic policies and instrumentalizing "the americans/the jews/the west" as the enemy. This never does turn out well. Crimea is merely an aberration by Putin, however that doesn't mean these proto-caudillo wannabes aren't like him.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. I've said before I think Putinisms danger is that it's an alternative to the Western model in a way that other models (China, Iran, North Korea) aren't in most cases.

And it's not one that I think is limited to the developing world. I'm alarmed by the polls in France and Ireland, by the rule of Orban, and by Podemos' links to the Venezuelan government. I find the stuff some of my Spanish friends come out with about the establishment alarming.

I think Nick Cohen's right, because it's not selling a positive alternative like Communism did, it actually preys on cynicism posing as worldliness and instilling a belief that politicians are all as bad as each other, and who are we to judge. It's trying to sap out the positive belief in a democratic system which can then be replaced with a post-modern democracy run by a genuinely corrupt elite.

[Syt]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/10-issues-turkish-media-is-banned-from-reporting-on.aspx?pageID=238&nID=74904&NewsCatID=339

10 issues Turkish media is banned from reporting on

Turkey's media organizations have been banned from reporting on a parliamentary inquiry into corruption allegations concerning four former ministers of Cabinet. Although the ban is unprecedented for a parliamentary inquiry, over 150 gag orders have been issued regarding the investigations of prosecutors in the last four years, according to Hürriyet reporter Zeynep Gürcanlı. Here are 10 of them:

1) Turkey's massive graft investigation

The corruption probe of Dec. 17, 2013 is the most controversial case for which a media ban has been adopted. The prosecutor of the case was quickly replaced by the authorities and in October, the new prosecutor decided not to continue with proceedings against 53 graft suspects, including former ministers' sons, the former manager of Halkbank and a controversial Iranian-Azeri businessman.


2) The ISIL raid on Turkey's Mosul consulate

Some 49 members of Turkey's consulate in Mosul and 31 truck drivers were kidnapped by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) after the latter seized Mosul late on June 9. The 9th Ankara Court of Serious Crimes imposed a media ban on reporting about the kidnapping in a June 16 ruling.


3) The tapping of the Turkish Foreign Ministry

The audio recordings of a top-secret national security meeting on Syria in the offices of the Turkish foreign minister were leaked via YouTube on March 27. After this, the Supreme Council of Radio and Television (RTÜK) quickly imposed a media ban on the broadcast of the illegal recording and its content.


4) The deadliest terror attack in Turkey's history

Soon after the deadliest terror attack in Turkey's history, which killed 52 people in the southern town of Reyhanlı on May 11, 2013, a local court banned all aural, visual and written publications about the aftermath of the blasts.


5) The bugging of Erdoğan's office

The Ankara Prosecutor's Office imposed a media ban in February on the ongoing investigation into bugging devices allegedly found in the office of then-Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.


6) The stopping of Syria-bound MİT trucks

In February, a ban was imposed on the publication of reports about a search of two trucks – allegedly carrying weapons belonging to Turkey's National Intelligence Organization (MİT) – that were bound for Syria.


7) Deadly attacks on security forces

In October, three Turkish soldiers and two policemen were killed in separate attacks. The Yüksekova Criminal Court of Peace ruled for a media ban on the killing of the soldiers on Oct. 27, days after a similar ruling by the Bingöl Criminal Court of Peace on the murders of the policemen.


8) The Uludere air strike

Air strikes carried out in the Uludere district of Şırnak province on Dec. 28, 2011 resulted in the deaths of 34 civilian villagers, who were allegedly mistaken for outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) militants as they smuggled goods into Turkey. Soon afterward, a media ban was imposed.


9) The worst mining disaster

RTÜK, Turkey's television and radio watchdog, warned broadcasters "to respect the feelings of the victims' families" after the worst workplace disaster of the country, in which 301 workers were killed in a mine accident in the western town of Soma in May.


10) The football match-fixing scandal

The 13th Istanbul Court of Serious Crimes ruled for a media ban in August 2011 on the publication of testimonies and audio evidence in a massive match-fixing investigation involving two professional Turkish football clubs.

[The Brain]

If America hadn't been told about 9/11 then it would automatically Never Forget.

[celedhring]

I find the stuff some of my Spanish friends come out with about the establishment alarming.

The Spanish establishment deserves all the shit it gets right now, to be honest.

[Neil]

It's a tough time for the establishment, in any country.  The times are changing, and when your cozy relationship with business and labour resulted in plentiful work for all, it wasn't really all that egregious that you were skimming all kinds of cash and influence for yourself out of the system.  But now that the environment has changed and new modes of business are producing unemployment (and thus poverty), the way that politics operate is starting to rub people the wrong way.

[Siege]

I heard the communists are gaining ground in Spain.
That can't be good.
They are very good at making everybody equally poor.

[Valmy]

I heard the communists are gaining ground in Spain.
That can't be good.
They are very good at making everybody equally poor.

Nonsense.  The Nomenclatura get pretty rich.

[PJL]

I heard the communists are gaining ground in Spain.
That can't be good.
They are very good at making everybody equally poor.

Even if that were true, it's not really any different to what we're seeing now, except it's the capitalists making the 99% equally poor.

[Sheilbh]

I find the stuff some of my Spanish friends come out with about the establishment alarming.

The Spanish establishment deserves all the shit it gets right now, to be honest.

It wasn't just the Spanish establishment though. For example a few of them think the Scottish vote was rigged which isn't something even the most lunatic wing of the nationalist movement think.

[celedhring]

I find the stuff some of my Spanish friends come out with about the establishment alarming.

The Spanish establishment deserves all the shit it gets right now, to be honest.

It wasn't just the Spanish establishment though. For example a few of them think the Scottish vote was rigged which isn't something even the most lunatic wing of the nationalist movement think.

Where are they from? Our nationalists are pretty lunatic.

[Sheilbh]

Where are they from? Our nationalists are pretty lunatic.

That's what's weird. None are nationalists. They're from places like Cadiz or the Castilian bit of Navarre

[celedhring]

Where are they from? Our nationalists are pretty lunatic.

That's what's weird. None are nationalists. They're from places like Cadiz or the Castilian bit of Navarre

Well, I've met Spaniards that would blame England for the existence of black holes if they could. Or even if they couldn't.

[Syt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30468199

Turkey police raid opposition media with Gulen links

Turkish police have made at least 23 arrests during raids on a newspaper and TV station with close ties to US-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gulen.

Those detained are accused of forming an illegal organisation and trying to seize control of the state.

Mr Gulen, the spiritual leader of the Hizmet movement, is a rival of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The raids come days after Mr Erdogan pledged a fresh campaign against Mr Gulen's supporters.

Among those arrested are journalists, producers, scriptwriters and a police chief in eastern Turkey.

Police attempted to raid the offices of the Zaman newspaper, one of Turkey's biggest, early on Sunday morning, but a crowd of protesters forced police to turn back before they could make arrests.

Staff at the paper also reported on the incident as it happened.

The paper's editor-in-chief, Ekrem Dumanli, tweeted a picture of himself at his desk, saying: "Officers [forced] back because of democratic reaction of my friends. I am at my place and wait."

But they returned and arrested him in a second raid in the afternoon.

Staff and supporters of the paper held placards and chanted "free press cannot be silenced" as police raided the building.

Mr Dumanli smiled and studied police documents before being led through the newspaper's headquarters to applause from staff crowded onto balconies.

"Let those who have committed a crime be scared," Mr Dumanli said as he was led away, according to Reuters.

"We are not scared."

'Disgrace'

The chairman of Samanyolu TV, which also has links to Mr Gulen, was detained in a separate raid in Istanbul.

Hidayet Karaca told reporters the operation was "a disgrace for Turkey" before his arrest.

"Sadly in 21st Century Turkey this is the treatment they dish out to a media group with tens of television and radio stations, internet media and magazines," the English edition of Zaman quoted him as saying.

Kemal Kilicdaroglu, the leader of Turkey's main opposition party, called the raids "a coup".

Staff at Zaman had been expecting the raid after details of the swoop were leaked by a Twitter user known as Fuat Avni, who has previously leaked advance details of police operations.

The police operation comes a year after corruption allegations against allies of Mr Erdogan emerged. He said it was a plot orchestrated by Mr Gulen supporters to topple him.

Mr Gulen denied this. He has lived in self-imposed exile in the US since 1999.

On Friday Mr Edogan vowed to pursue Gulen supporters "in their lairs".



Analysis by Mark Lowen, BBC News, Istanbul

The timing of these arrests isn't coincidental. It's almost a year to the day since the biggest corruption scandal in Turkey's modern history exploded. Recep Tayyip Erdogan, then prime minister, now president, was targeted, along with his inner circle. Four ministers were forced to resign. It was widely believed the government wouldn't survive.

Extraordinarily, Mr Erdogan managed to turn it around, declaring war on what he called a "parallel state": followers of his one-time ally Fetullah Gulen who he said were plotting a coup. He fired thousands of police officers and prosecutors, launching an endless tirade in the media that he's ensured is widely pro-government, and sidelined dissidents. This is stage two: arresting the critics.

Turkey already ranks 154th of 180 in the press freedom index compiled by Reporters without Borders. Human rights organisations raise concerns that freedom of expression is under attack in a country seeking EU membership.

But the Turkish government says it's a conspiracy against a country that won't tow the West's line. It talks of the "enemy within" which must be eradicated. Today's move will fuel international concerns of an eroding democracy here.