"This War Of Mine" computer game from the point of view of civilian survivors

[Jacob]

I've found the idea of games as art problematic for similar reasons.

I don't see what is problematic about games designed as art; I merely tend to not find them appealing to play.

When I applied for art school, I did a board game as art as part of my application process. It was a you-can't-win-as-a-struggling-artist kind of thing; valid enough as a (somewhat pedestrian) statement, but not something that'd be a whole lot of fun to play more than once (at most)

[Malthus]

In this game, can you go for "evil" as a winning strategy? Say, become a psychopathic cannibal, and reverse what is normally found "depressing"? 

[The Brain]

I've found the idea of games as art problematic for similar reasons.

I don't see what is problematic about games designed as art; I merely tend to not find them appealing to play.

[Syt]

I don't mind playing depressing games, it's an interesting break from the usual fantasy wish fulfillment.

For the people who said that this is not what they look for in games, I'm curious: does this only extend to games? Or also other media, like TV shows or movies? If not, why is your approach different when it comes to games?

[CountDeMoney]

More people should play Limbo.

[Tonitrus]

In light of tonight's dominant thread, and that we should make love and not war...where is the "This Porn of Mine" game?

[Syt]

I think that there'd be mileage in a game about running a porn actor's/actress's career, especially if you add moral questions and the darker side of the business (abuse, drug use, risk of diseases ...), and you can add poignancy e.g. when a performer's star starts to sink: what are they willing to do to themselves and on camera when the big offers stop coming in? Or when you're a young hopeful and want to impress the producers. How will your personal relationships react? Etc.

[Josquius]

Actually sounds kind of interesting.
Though I really hope there isn't an artificial no fighting rule.

Watched some "Let's Plays" and reviews on this and it's likely something I'll pick up at some point.

It's a similar concept to Zafehouse Diaries (though that game is much more lo-fi and deals with Zombies and instead of point and click 2D it's mostly text based).

How is Zafehouse Diaries? I've been looking at that one.

I think that there'd be mileage in a game about running a porn actor's/actress's career, especially if you add moral questions and the darker side of the business (abuse, drug use, risk of diseases ...), and you can add poignancy e.g. when a performer's star starts to sink: what are they willing to do to themselves and on camera when the big offers stop coming in? Or when you're a young hopeful and want to impress the producers. How will your personal relationships react? Etc.

Make it.
Sounds like something that can be done with little more than text boxes and the occasional photo.
Copyright on the photos would be the problem

[Martinus]

I don't mind playing depressing games, it's an interesting break from the usual fantasy wish fulfillment.

For the people who said that this is not what they look for in games, I'm curious: does this only extend to games? Or also other media, like TV shows or movies? If not, why is your approach different when it comes to games?

For me, generally, yes. The older I get, the less willing I am to watch movies and read books that are depressing etc. (that is why I didn't really enjoy "Brokeback Mountain" or "Philadelphia" and do not really enjoy that trope in gay-themed cinema). My choice of fiction tends towards escapism these days - so suspense/dark fantasy (but not full horror), sci fi and comedies.

For example, the only "darker" shows I could get into recently were the likes of Game of Thrones, American Horror Story, Penny Dreadful, Gotham, Constantine or Shameless (i.e. where the element of "darkness" is rendered less real by fantastic elements or - in the case of Shameless - dark comedy). I did not enjoy Breaking Bad or Walking Dead (the latter obviously being more fantasy but too bleak for my tastes).

[Syt]

How is Zafehouse Diaries? I've been looking at that one.

I found it "meh."

[CountDeMoney]

For me, generally, yes. The older I get, the less willing I am to watch movies and read books that are depressing etc. (that is why I didn't really enjoy "Brokeback Mountain" or "Philadelphia" and do not really enjoy that trope in gay-themed cinema).

Philadelphia was over 20 years ago.    Oh, that's right.  Poland.

What, the only trope left in " gay-themed cinema" is variations of La Cage aux folles?   

I did not enjoy Breaking Bad or Walking Dead (the latter obviously being more fantasy but too bleak for my tastes).

Too bleak? For Poland?

[Razgovory]

I've found the idea of games as art problematic for similar reasons.

I don't see what is problematic about games designed as art; I merely tend to not find them appealing to play.

When I applied for art school, I did a board game as art as part of my application process. It was a you-can't-win-as-a-struggling-artist kind of thing; valid enough as a (somewhat pedestrian) statement, but not something that'd be a whole lot of fun to play more than once (at most)

Well, I see games as being a system of mechanics and rules.  You move a piece round a board, you hit a ball with a bat, you drive around a map etc.  A game stands on this, it must have it.  It also must be fun, or people won't play it.  Artistic elements are optional.  Now a computer game can have artistic elements (and usually does), things like a story and graphic design are art, but they stand on their own as well.

Now I think games and sports are a worthy human endeavor by themselves.  Games can invoke feelings and teach the players or audience important stuff.  They are not art, but a separate part of the human condition.

[dps]

I don't mind playing depressing games, it's an interesting break from the usual fantasy wish fulfillment.

For the people who said that this is not what they look for in games, I'm curious: does this only extend to games? Or also other media, like TV shows or movies? If not, why is your approach different when it comes to games?

I don't think it's the depressing element so much as the lack of control.  From the description, this isn't a game where you do things, it's a game where things are done to you.

I don't necessarily want complete non-randomness in a game (when I do, I'll stick to chess), but I want some control over what happens.  And yes, I understand that your decisions in the game do have consequences, but that's still not the same as having some degree of control over the situation.

[Martinus]

For me, generally, yes. The older I get, the less willing I am to watch movies and read books that are depressing etc. (that is why I didn't really enjoy "Brokeback Mountain" or "Philadelphia" and do not really enjoy that trope in gay-themed cinema).

Philadelphia was over 20 years ago.    Oh, that's right.  Poland.

What, the only trope left in " gay-themed cinema" is variations of La Cage aux folles?   

Yeah, well that's one gay movie I liked. Most of the others were comedies too.

[Jacob]

Well, I see games as being a system of mechanics and rules.  You move a piece round a board, you hit a ball with a bat, you drive around a map etc.  A game stands on this, it must have it.  It also must be fun, or people won't play it.  Artistic elements are optional.  Now a computer game can have artistic elements (and usually does), things like a story and graphic design are art, but they stand on their own as well.

Now I think games and sports are a worthy human endeavor by themselves.  Games can invoke feelings and teach the players or audience important stuff.  They are not art, but a separate part of the human condition.

Ah... I see. I use the word problematic somewhat differently than you

I don't object to anything you say there - it makes sense. I disagree, in that I think games are a perfectly valid tool for artistic expression. I don't see them as separate from "art" - but rather that the current thrust of game production is a popular art form primarily concerned with mass appeal and unconcerned with various "high art" concerns. But to me that's down to the priorities of the makers and consumers, rather than down to the form itself. Games are a perfectly suitable medium for expressing profound truths about the human condition or whatever.

It's just that I don't tend to enjoy that stuff, preferring lighter fare aimed at popular taste. That kind of mirrors the situation in film and books as well; much of it is intellectually light-weight stuff intended for entertainment purposes, but they're still perfectly valid media for high theory style stuff. The same is true for image production, in fact - lots of people prefer stuff produced for concerns other than art theory reasons.

But yeah, games are very much about mechanics and rules, though I think the visual presentation and other "flavour bits" are just as important to the craft.