Stunning photos of London's new WWI memorial

[grumbler]

And so comes my annual reminder to the board of the existence of the excellent video featuring the Dropkick Murphys performing "The Green Fields of France:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrQnnZJ68Xo  There are lots of inferior versions of the same idea; that one is the best.

[Syt]

Why the fuck would they use English on a Wehrmacht deserters memorial? Is German someone not appropriate?

Beats me.

It's a bit surprising they made one, anyways, because conservatives and right wingers complained that it was a memorial not only to resisters (that some deserters were) but also to traitors who betrayed their comrades (that other deserters were).

It's still better than what's going on in a small village. A bunch of deserters (soldiers recruited from the area) had hidden there. The SS found them and had them shot. There was to be a memorial plaque, but there was strong local resistance by roughly half the village: among the people shot were also non-deserters suspected of aiding the runaways. The naysayers blame those deaths on the deserters, and therefore remembering them would be disrespectful of the innocent victims.

"all alone" reminds me of the opening narration of Babylon 5, though.

[crazy canuck]

And so comes my annual reminder to the board of the existence of the excellent video featuring the Dropkick Murphys performing "The Green Fields of France:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrQnnZJ68Xo  There are lots of inferior versions of the same idea; that one is the best.

[The Brain]

Alone alone, all all alone, alone on a wide wide sea?

[Martinus]

This is awesome but can you Brits get over it already? Everyone who fought in this war is already dead (in fact except for a handful of people, everyone who lived when this war started is already dead). Yes, people died. It was a war. We get it.

[Ed Anger]

Lord Feet demands you peons get over it. chop chop.

[Admiral Yi]

Maybe if we're lucky we'll get a full-on rant about loser soldiers.

[mongers]

This is awesome but can you Brits get over it already? Everyone who fought in this war is already dead (in fact except for a handful of people, everyone who lived when this war started is already dead). Yes, people died. It was a war. We get it.

I think you're missing the political, cultural and economic shadows that war still casts.

Or perhaps it should be regarded as a watershed moment in British history?

[Martinus]

This is awesome but can you Brits get over it already? Everyone who fought in this war is already dead (in fact except for a handful of people, everyone who lived when this war started is already dead). Yes, people died. It was a war. We get it.

I think you're missing the political, cultural and economic shadows that war still casts.

Or perhaps it should be regarded as a watershed moment in British history?

It's not like Poland didn't have its share of traumatic events (in fact, some of them, especially WW2, make the British experience of WW1 seem rather feeble in comparison). And that was within the living memory. So I get the need to honor those who had to go through. But once everybody involved is dead, it does seem rather self-indulgent.

[mongers]

This is awesome but can you Brits get over it already? Everyone who fought in this war is already dead (in fact except for a handful of people, everyone who lived when this war started is already dead). Yes, people died. It was a war. We get it.

I think you're missing the political, cultural and economic shadows that war still casts.

Or perhaps it should be regarded as a watershed moment in British history?

It's not like Poland didn't have its share of traumatic events (in fact, some of them, especially WW2, make the British experience of WW1 seem rather feeble in comparison). And that was within the living memory. So I get the need to honor those who had to go through. But once everybody involved is dead, it does seem rather self-indulgent.

I don't think that's especially important, it should be an occasion to reflect on matters of current political and social concern.

[Sheilbh]

I think you're missing the political, cultural and economic shadows that war still casts.

Such as the collapse of Sykes-Picot?

It's not like Poland didn't have its share of traumatic events (in fact, some of them, especially WW2, make the British experience of WW1 seem rather feeble in comparison). And that was within the living memory. So I get the need to honor those who had to go through. But once everybody involved is dead, it does seem rather self-indulgent.

Most other combatants' experience of WW1 makes the British seem rather feeble. That's not the point. And sure if your history is a litany of misery then it makes other remembrance seem a bit trite. But isn't that the thing about memory, it's always personal? So the fact that other countries suffered more in WW1 or history in general doesn't matter to the British memory which is what Remembrance Day in Britain is about.

What's interesting to me is that about WW1 it's not necessarily about honouring what they went through in the normal sense. Our memory is wrong factually about WW1. It's seen as a uniquely pointless war, full of futile battles led by buffoonish generals in mud, mire and the trenches. It's not heroic, or a needed sacrifice but a generation of innocents sent to die for no good reason. I think if this tradition had emerged after WW2 for example it would've ended up far less enduring because it would be far less ambiguous in tone. Perhaps that's why it opens itself to Mongers' view with veterans of more difficult modern wars in Iraq and Afghanistan at the end of the parade.

And of course it's not just about WW1 it's remembrance for all our fallen in all our wars, though there's going to be a pretty heavy WW1 focus in the next few years I think. The days of Tommies leading the parade (which I remember) are over. It's normally WW2 veterans now.

But I don't entirely disagree with you. It's pretty striking that the popularity of Remembrance Day has increased (perhaps because of our modern wars) when everyone thought it was going to die out with the last of the Tommies. Maybe that's a consequence of recent wars. But I also feel it's linked to a sort of kitsch infantilisation of the past - for example the generation of WW1 being seen purely as victims, or the hip 1950s style cafes you find with old portraits of the Queen and the Union Jack. And the current British love of mass emotionalism whether it's grief after Diana died or rage as it is at the minute. I'm not entirely sure it's not self indulgent as you say.

[mongers]

....

But I don't entirely disagree with you. It's pretty striking that the popularity of Remembrance Day has increased (perhaps because of our modern wars) when everyone thought it was going to die out with the last of the Tommies. Maybe that's a consequence of recent wars. But I also feel it's linked to a sort of kitsch infantilisation of the past - for example the generation of WW1 being seen purely as victims, or the hip 1950s style cafes you find with old portraits of the Queen and the Union Jack. And the current British love of mass emotionalism whether it's grief after Diana died or rage as it is at the minute. I'm not entirely sure it's not self indulgent as you say.

Oh I don't disagree on this, but I'd say the 'over-emotionalism' regarding WW1 and remembrance is at least a healthy one in that I think it partially grows out of a need to find belonging/shared experiences in an otherwise heavily atomised society.

And yes the mass emotionalism over events like Diana's death and it's flip-side the rage political of the now are deeply worrying in their unreasoned nature.

[The Larch]

It seems to me that the Brits (and maybe the Belgians, as well as former CW countries, like Canada and Australia) are the only ones of the participants that still care so much about WWI, the French used to care a big deal too but they seem to not be that much into it anymore. I'd say that everybody else moved on to devote most of their historical grief to WWII to the point of eclipsing everything else.

[Sheilbh]

It seems to me that the Brits (and maybe the Belgians, as well as former CW countries, like Canada and Australia) are the only ones of the participants that still care so much about WWI, the French used to care a big deal too but they seem to not be that much into it anymore. I'd say that everybody else moved on to devote most of their historical grief to WWII to the point of eclipsing everything else.

I find it interesting that lots of countries still mark 11/11 - like the US for example do, I think Veterans' Day is around about now. It's odd.

But it'd be interesting to know about how other countries are marking the centenary, especially France, Germany and Russia.

I suppose it makes sense though. For the Commonwealth the traumatic war was WW1. WW2 was a great, eventual triumph and vindication. Ultimately it was the 'finest hour', while for most other combatants that trauma rather eclipsed the Great War.

[CountDeMoney]

I find it interesting that lots of countries still mark 11/11 - like the US for example do, I think Veterans' Day is around about now. It's odd.

It is Veterans' Day. 

I suppose it makes sense though. For the Commonwealth the traumatic war was WW1. WW2 was a great, eventual triumph and vindication. Ultimately it was the 'finest hour', while for most other combatants that trauma rather eclipsed the Great War.

This.  Yeah, the Blitz was bad and you had Monty fucking shit up with his Montyness but compared to its continental counterparts, England came out relatively intact.  WW1 was a far different experience.  Kitchener destroyed entire communities.