Human Rights Watch Warns of 'Authoritarian Drift' in Turkey

[Zanza]

Schengen is not an essential part of the freedom of movement and, AFAIK, the deal with Switzerland does not require them accepting Schengen. People get confused about this, but Schengen is a relatively late addition to the EU set up and the case of the UK, which was never part of the Schengen, proves it is quite optional.

I know that, but what I didn't know is that the linkage only applies to the Bilaterale I, not the Bilaterale II. So Switzerland could cancel freedom of movement (and single market access) and keep Schengen or vice versa. Although the Bilaterale II without the Bilaterale I don't make that much sense.

[Hamilcar]

I'm kind of sympathetic to the right wing opinion here that if the EU wants to play hardball, we'll just charge transit fees through the Alps. Those tunnels ain't free.

Hmm, land transport doesn't seem to be a policy area where I would try to build pressure as a land-locked enclave. The other side can just reciprocate with transit fees of their own...?

I'm fairly sure German and Italian industry will cave first upon having to pay say EUR 2000 per truck.

[celedhring]

Democratic Spain is multikulti by design. I think it actually helps integrating immigrants, although our second generation immigrants are just reaching adulthood so it's still early to tell. The amount of north-African hotties in revealing summer dress that I get to ogle during my commute makes me optimistic, though. 

[The Larch]

Democratic Spain is multikulti by design. I think it actually helps integrating immigrants, although our second generation immigrants are just reaching adulthood so it's still early to tell. The amount of north-African hotties in revealing summer dress that I get to ogle during my commute makes me optimistic, though. 

I wonder when will we get our first regular international footie players from an inmigrant background. My money is on Iñaki Williams, although Munir beat him for the honour of being the 1st one to play for the team. I don't count Bojan Krkic, though, as his case was a bit special.

[celedhring]

Democratic Spain is multikulti by design. I think it actually helps integrating immigrants, although our second generation immigrants are just reaching adulthood so it's still early to tell. The amount of north-African hotties in revealing summer dress that I get to ogle during my commute makes me optimistic, though. 

I wonder when will we get our first regular international footie players from an inmigrant background. My money is on Iñaki Williams, although Munir beat him for the honour of being the 1st one to play for the team. I don't count Bojan Krkic, though, as his case was a bit special.

Well, he's never become a regular for Spain, but I don't know why you wouldn't count him if he did? Dad was a Yugoslav (serb) that moved here in the late 80s.

And my guess is Thiago Alcántara will be that one, but since he's from a Brazilian background he's outside the scope of the kind of immigration that makes Languish tick.

[The Larch]

Democratic Spain is multikulti by design. I think it actually helps integrating immigrants, although our second generation immigrants are just reaching adulthood so it's still early to tell. The amount of north-African hotties in revealing summer dress that I get to ogle during my commute makes me optimistic, though. 

I wonder when will we get our first regular international footie players from an inmigrant background. My money is on Iñaki Williams, although Munir beat him for the honour of being the 1st one to play for the team. I don't count Bojan Krkic, though, as his case was a bit special.

Well, he's never become a regular for Spain, but I don't know why you wouldn't count him if he did? Dad was a Yugoslav (serb) that moved here in the late 80s.

In absolute terms he is, yeah (although IIRC Christiansen was also a full international in the early 90s), but they're oddities in the sense that they're not a reflection of widespread demographic changes and are more like one-off things.

I also mentioned the "becoming a regular" thing to rule out the blatant call-ups to prevent players eligible to play for more than one country from being "poached" by the national teams of their countries of origin, even if it's clear that they're not going to be part of the national team in the short term.

[celedhring]

Democratic Spain is multikulti by design. I think it actually helps integrating immigrants, although our second generation immigrants are just reaching adulthood so it's still early to tell. The amount of north-African hotties in revealing summer dress that I get to ogle during my commute makes me optimistic, though. 

I wonder when will we get our first regular international footie players from an inmigrant background. My money is on Iñaki Williams, although Munir beat him for the honour of being the 1st one to play for the team. I don't count Bojan Krkic, though, as his case was a bit special.

Well, he's never become a regular for Spain, but I don't know why you wouldn't count him if he did? Dad was a Yugoslav (serb) that moved here in the late 80s.

In absolute terms he is, yeah (although IIRC Christiansen was also a full international in the early 90s), but they're oddities in the sense that they're not a reflection of widespread demographic cases and are more like one-off things.

I also mentioned the "becoming a regular" thing to rule out the blatant call-ups to prevent players eligible to play for more than one country from being "poached" by the national teams of their countries of origin, even if it's clear that they're not going to be part of the national team in the short term.

Christiansen was a one-hit wonder, too. Only played one game for Spain IIRC. Sucks, because I'm sure he would have enjoyed a long international career had he chosen Denmark instead.

Although it's true that Thiago grew up in Spain because his dad played for a certain team in the Spanish NW, he's also a reflection of the massive Latin-American immigration Spain has received these decades.

[The Larch]

Democratic Spain is multikulti by design. I think it actually helps integrating immigrants, although our second generation immigrants are just reaching adulthood so it's still early to tell. The amount of north-African hotties in revealing summer dress that I get to ogle during my commute makes me optimistic, though. 

I wonder when will we get our first regular international footie players from an inmigrant background. My money is on Iñaki Williams, although Munir beat him for the honour of being the 1st one to play for the team. I don't count Bojan Krkic, though, as his case was a bit special.

Well, he's never become a regular for Spain, but I don't know why you wouldn't count him if he did? Dad was a Yugoslav (serb) that moved here in the late 80s.

In absolute terms he is, yeah (although IIRC Christiansen was also a full international in the early 90s), but they're oddities in the sense that they're not a reflection of widespread demographic cases and are more like one-off things.

I also mentioned the "becoming a regular" thing to rule out the blatant call-ups to prevent players eligible to play for more than one country from being "poached" by the national teams of their countries of origin, even if it's clear that they're not going to be part of the national team in the short term.

Christiansen was a one-hit wonder, too. Only played one game for Spain IIRC. Sucks, because I'm sure he would have enjoyed a long international career had he chosen Denmark instead.

Although it's true that Thiago grew up in Spain because his dad played for a certain team in the Spanish NW, he's also a reflection of the massive Latin-American immigration Spain has received these decades.

Yeah, Christiansen should have chosen to play for Denmark. He was not the kind of player Clemente wanted, for sure. 

And just to show you how integrated Thiago is, I had totally forgotten about him when thinking about Spanish football players with foreign roots.  IIRC he could have chosen to play either for Spain, Brasil or Italy. I believe he chose...wisely. Rafinha chose to play for Brasil, let's see how it goes for him. But yeah, in any case, the "son of a footballer" trope rules him out for the purposes of this exercise.

What about the bunch of Cameroonian kids that Barcelona has in the youth teams? Is any of them shaping up to be a top prospect?

Edit: Another one I have just remembered (and I should beat myself for it, as it's another former Celta player), Vicente Engonga, although I believe that his father was also a football player.

[celedhring]

What about the bunch of Cameroonian kids that Barcelona has in the youth teams? Is any of them shaping up to be a top prospect?

I wish.

A few of them will probably end up being decent footballers, but I can't see any of them becoming a regular for Spain. Traoré (which we sold to Villa last year) had everything needed for that, except the trifling matter of lacking a brain.

EDIT: Jordi Mboula (love that name combo) is a regular for the Spain youth teams, but he's coasting on his athleticism, imho. I don't think he'll be able to leverage it into a top senior career.

[The Larch]

What about the bunch of Cameroonian kids that Barcelona has in the youth teams? Is any of them shaping up to be a top prospect?

I wish.

A few of them will probably end up being decent footballers, but I can't see any of them becoming a regular for Spain. Traoré (which we sold to Villa last year) had everything needed for that, except the trifling matter of lacking a brain.

Well that's a pity, he was one of the few that seemed to have what it takes. I've just checked and he pledged back in 2014, together with an older brother who plays for Córdoba, to play for Mali instead of Spain, although he has not yet made his debut. There is also Balde Keita, who was born in a village in Girona and used to play for Barcelona's youth squads and now plays in Italy, but apparently he has switched to play for Senegal. Apparently he was never even called up for the U21 team, when he seems to be an established player in an important team like Lazio.

Edit: At Celta we have Pape Cheikh, a kid born in Senegal that came to Spain when he was 14 to play for some weird academy team in Palencia and is now playing for the U19 Spanish team, who seems to be good although we have only seen little from him at this point. I hope he gets more chances this season, as he has already played a few games for the 1st team last season.

[celedhring]

What about the bunch of Cameroonian kids that Barcelona has in the youth teams? Is any of them shaping up to be a top prospect?

I wish.

A few of them will probably end up being decent footballers, but I can't see any of them becoming a regular for Spain. Traoré (which we sold to Villa last year) had everything needed for that, except the trifling matter of lacking a brain.

Well that's a pity, he was one of the few that seemed to have what it takes. I've just checked and he pledged back in 2014, together with an older brother who plays for Córdoba, to play for Mali instead of Spain, although he has not yet made his debut. There is also Balde Keita, who was born in a village in Girona and used to play for Barcelona's youth squads and now plays in Italy, but apparently he has switched to play for Senegal. Apparently he was never even called up for the U21 team, when he seems to be an established player in an important team like Lazio.

Baldé had lots of discipline problems that marred his Barcelona career, that's what landed him in Lazio eventually.

[Martinus]

There is nothing more boring than listening to two Southern Europeans talking about soccer.

[alfred russel]

There is nothing more boring than listening to two Southern Europeans talking about soccer.

This is why you keep getting banned.

[mongers]

There is nothing more boring than listening to two Southern Europeans talking about soccer.

This is why you keep getting banned.

But we all need to know that 'fact'.

[DGuller]

Marty's got a point, and it can be expanded more generally.  Nothing looks more boring or more silly than the spectacle of people discussing a sport that you yourself don't follow.