Tory Wars

[Zanza]

What about Gerhard Schröder becoming Putin's stooge?

[Barrister]

Wait regicide?

Axing Thatcher, in case Sheilbh's post wasn't clear enough.

Of course she didn't help matters. Her and Ted Heath are probably the worst examples of how a former leader should behave. Ted Heath sulked for thirty years, looking away whenever she was in the room, and she repeatedly commented on what she'd be doing in John Major's place.

I see your examples, and raise you Joe Clark.

What did Joe do wrong? I mean, other than not liking the new Conservative Party that cannibalized the Progressive Conservative Party which he'd served his whole career?

"Cannibalized"?

The two parties voted and agreed to merge.  Plus, it's not like the PC Party was anything more than a shadow of it's former self - enough supporters and donors to keep going, but nowhere near enough to be any threat of winning an election.

Clarke went out of his way to oppose the merger, then once the merger went ahead went out of his way to oppose the newly merged party.

And of course see how weell that worked out for him.  Instead of being a vaunted "elder statesman" to the Conservative Party, he's now a nobody in Ottawa.

[Valmy]

At least he turned that inner city High School around.

[Sheilbh]

What about Gerhard Schröder becoming Putin's stooge?

I mean for their parties. He's like Tony Blair shilling about the human rights record of any autocrat in difficulty. But generally he doesn't cause difficulties for Miliband and didn't really for Brown.

They should do one of two things - either return to politics and quietly and decently support your successor (see Alec Douglas-Home who went on to be Foreign Secretary for Ted Heath) or comfortably retire, maybe to the House of Lords, write the odd memoir and do useful work in something that interests you, like John Major and cricket.

Brown's breaking the mould of course by leaving office, only to return to save the country and dictate a new constitutional settlement to us

[Zanza]

The most loyal former party boss in Germany is Wolfgang Schäuble. He was basically thrown under the bus by Angela Merkel, but has arguably been her most important minister since she took office.

The most disloyal former party boss in Germany is Oskar Lafontaine, who was the leader of the Social Democrats in the late 90s, then didn't become chancellor because Schröder was in a better position. He then quit the SPD and defected to the Left Party and is one of the reasons why that party is still doing quite well, hurting his old party for more than a decade now.

[The Minsky Moment]

The most loyal former party boss in Germany is Wolfgang Schäuble. He was basically thrown under the bus by Angela Merkel, but has arguably been her most important minister since she took office.

Which is kind of too bad, as he is the second coming of Heinrich Bruening.

[Jacob]

"Cannibalized"?

The two parties voted and agreed to merge.  Plus, it's not like the PC Party was anything more than a shadow of it's former self - enough supporters and donors to keep going, but nowhere near enough to be any threat of winning an election.

Clarke went out of his way to oppose the merger, then once the merger went ahead went out of his way to oppose the newly merged party.

And of course see how weell that worked out for him.  Instead of being a vaunted "elder statesman" to the Conservative Party, he's now a nobody in Ottawa.

Yeah, he stuck to his principles. He opposed the merger, and he continued to oppose the merger. It does not make him a bad ex-PM that he, a Red Tory, disagreed with his party merging with a populist party intent on shedding the Red Tory part of the party.

[Barrister]

"Cannibalized"?

The two parties voted and agreed to merge.  Plus, it's not like the PC Party was anything more than a shadow of it's former self - enough supporters and donors to keep going, but nowhere near enough to be any threat of winning an election.

Clarke went out of his way to oppose the merger, then once the merger went ahead went out of his way to oppose the newly merged party.

And of course see how weell that worked out for him.  Instead of being a vaunted "elder statesman" to the Conservative Party, he's now a nobody in Ottawa.

Yeah, he stuck to his principles. He opposed the merger, and he continued to oppose the merger. It does not make him a bad ex-PM that he, a Red Tory, disagreed with his party merging with a populist party intent on shedding the Red Tory part of the party.

The question was in discussing the "worst example of how a former leader should behave".  Joe had his time as leader - twice in fact.  He almost certainly should never have taken over the leadership a second time, but in any event once he resigned that second time he should let the party and it's new leader plot their own course.  As an "elder statesman" his role should have been to give private guidance, write letters and give speeches on important but generally non-partisan topics.

What he shouldn't have done is exactly what he did - continue to speak out vocally about ongoing policy and party issues.

You didn't see Mulroney or even Kim Campbell attempt to play party politics the way Clark did.  Hell even Chretien, despite the obvious animosity he held for Paul Martin, knew to keep his mouth shut.