Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

[Monoriu]

5 October 2014 Last updated at 14:32

Hong Kong protests 'won't change things' - Lord Powell

Demonstrators are unhappy at China's vetting of candidates for Hong Kong's elections in 2017

A former adviser to Margaret Thatcher has said pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong are "unrealistic" and should enjoy the freedoms they already have.

Lord Powell, private secretary when Britain agreed to return the territory to China, said political rights in Hong Kong were always going to be limited.

Demonstrators took to the streets two weeks ago angry at China's plans to vet election candidates in 2017.

Hong Kong's leader has urged them to end their action before Monday.

CY Leung has warned that police would ensure government offices and schools could reopen after the weekend.

'That's life'

The protesters are demanding that the central government in Beijing allow Hong Kong to hold fully free elections in the next vote for the region's leader.

But speaking to BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend, Lord Powell said: "People have the right to peaceful protest and by and large the protests have been peaceful. But they're also unrealistic.

"The position about elections has been clear since the law was published in 1991 and I don't believe for one moment the Chinese are going to change that basic position.

Asked about the protests he said: "It's a pity there is perhaps this small black cloud there but that's life. It has been there a long time and I don't believe it's going to change."

Lord Powell was a British diplomat before going on to advise prime ministers Mrs Thatcher and John Major
The cross-bench peer advised Mrs Thatcher between 1983 and 1991.

He is now a director of property developers Hong Kong Land Holdings, and chairman of the UK government's Asia Task Force.

China and the UK signed a joint declaration to return Hong Kong under the so-called "one country, two systems" formula in 1997.

It was agreed the territory would retain its capitalist economy but would become part of communist China.

'Moral responsibility'

"Hong Kong has always been part of China," Lord Powell added.

"We rented it for a while and we didn't introduce democracy... and one reason we didn't is because we knew it was eventually going back to China and it would have been far worse to introduce full democracy and then taken it away from them."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29498378

[Jacob]

Lord Powell sounds like a bit of a cock.

[garbon]

I want to start using that again. "Oh you have a problem? Too bad, 'that's life.'"

[Monoriu]

- there was a report about some internet posters wanting to let the mainland people know "the truth".  The way they proposed to get around mainland censors was to insert photographs of the riots in...pirated Japanese XXX movies, which are tolerated on the mainland.  It may be nothing more than a few random guys joking around, until you notice this is exactly what Beijing fears most, that we are trying to undermine their rule on the mainland. 

- some middle-aged dude screamed in front of the camera that the reason he slept on the streets for 9 days in a row was to have things get "back to the way they were in the past."  He looked like a construction worker or a truck driver to me.  In the past, these guys earned decent, lower middle class incomes.  Now, even construction work has been outsourced.  The developers built modules on the mainland with cheap labour, then assembled all the modules in HK, significantly cutting the number of workers needed in HK.  Just like how they assemble aircraft.  Right now, we need young, beautiful, presentable people with fluent Mandarin to sell US$10,000 handbags to mainland tourists in Louis Vuitton shops, not construction workers.   

- walked past a wall with tons of posters on them.  They are not about democracy, but housing.  Housing is the source of all social unrest, the posters said.  There is a lot of truth there.  Our housing situation is a total disaster.  I've seen a large scale official survey that says at least 200,000 (yes, 6 figures) are living in illegal flats not that much larger than a cage.  People divide up a 300 square feet flat into 5 or 6 units, then rent them out at like US$800 each month.  Nothing more than a bunker bed with four walls surrounding it. This is a place where the median income is US$16,000.  Entire families have been burnt to death in those places due to accidents. 

[CountDeMoney]

- walked past a wall with tons of posters on them.  They are not about democracy, but housing.  Housing is the source of all social unrest, the posters said.  There is a lot of truth there.  Our housing situation is a total disaster.  I've seen a large scale official survey that says at least 200,000 (yes, 6 figures) are living in illegal flats not that much larger than a cage.  People divide up a 300 square feet flat into 5 or 6 units, then rent them out at like US$800 each month.  Nothing more than a bunker bed with four walls surrounding it. This is a place where the median income is US$16,000.  Entire families have been burnt to death in those places due to accidents.

But that's not your problem, you tell us.

[DGuller]

Why should it be?  How far do fires spread anyway?

[Monoriu]

- walked past a wall with tons of posters on them.  They are not about democracy, but housing.  Housing is the source of all social unrest, the posters said.  There is a lot of truth there.  Our housing situation is a total disaster.  I've seen a large scale official survey that says at least 200,000 (yes, 6 figures) are living in illegal flats not that much larger than a cage.  People divide up a 300 square feet flat into 5 or 6 units, then rent them out at like US$800 each month.  Nothing more than a bunker bed with four walls surrounding it. This is a place where the median income is US$16,000.  Entire families have been burnt to death in those places due to accidents.

But that's not your problem, you tell us.

Well, it affects me as well.  I want to buy a bigger flat but can't because the prices are insane, even by HK standards.  90% of the population have no hope of getting a mortgage with their incomes.  That's how crazy it is. 

I sympathise a lot on the housing issue, but it does take years to build the flats.  There is no available land in HK anymore.  Any new land must be reclaimed from the seas, or obtained from removing some mountains.  You don't just build a building in the middle of nowhere.  You also need roads, water supply, drainage, trains, buses, schools, and a lot of other supporting services.  This is not something that can be solved overnight. 

On top of that, the democrats block every attempt by the government to build more housing.  They worry about the "environmental impact", the dolphins in the seas, the historic value of this and that, etc.  And they are unhappy with the entire system in the first place.  In HK, people don't live in small houses.  They live in housing estates of several thousand flats each, with malls and shops and carparks inside them.  It takes hundreds of millions in US$ to build one of those.  Guess what?  Only several huge real estate conglomerates have the capital to build them, and they are all owned by 3 or 4 of the richest families in HK.  That means, like half the income of all HK workers all ultimately go to these families.  These families are the people who pack the 1,200 member committee who picks our Chief Executive.  Not only that, but these families are also behind tons of businesses in HK.  Electricity companies, heating gas companies, malls, supermarkets, offices, they basically own everything. 

The people hate this system. 

[Monoriu]

Hong Kong protests: Talks scheduled as crowds shrink and frustration rises

By Jethro Mullen and Andrew Stevens, CNN

October 8, 2014 -- Updated 0248 GMT (1048 HKT)

HK protests hurting small businesses

Student protest leaders and Hong Kong's chief secretary will meet Friday, official says
Anti-Occupy protesters and student demonstrators face off in the Admiralty area
Numbers have dwindled at pro-democracy protest sites around Hong Kong
"At first, I supported them, but then I started to think they are being selfish," one woman says

Hong Kong (CNN) -- After more than a week of stalemate, student leaders and the government have agreed to a framework for formal talks after protesters around the government headquarters gave civil servants better access to the building.

Talks are scheduled between the government and protest leaders at 4 p.m. local time Friday (4 a.m. Friday ET), and media coverage will be allowed. The government's number two official, Chief Secretary Carrie Lam, will be the principal negotiator from the government side.

Embattled Chief Executive C.Y. Leung released a video statement saying students should consider the inconveniences to the general public and insisted the students clear the vehicle entrances to the government complex. He also advised students to leave the protest site in Mong Kok.

The news of official talks comes as a dwindling number of pro-democracy demonstrators continue to cling on to their protest sites in key areas of the tightly packed city. As their numbers wane, so does patience of some of their fellow citizens.

"At first, I supported them, but then I started to think they are being selfish because they block the roads -- and that's wrong," said Virginia Lai, who has sold newspapers from a stall in the busy district of Mong Kok for 45 years.

Lai says her business is down 30% and getting worse. The student-led demonstrators are camped out at a major intersection in the neighborhood, which witnessed violent clashes between protesters and their opponents over the weekend.

A CNN team at the main protest point in the Admiralty area also witnessed friction Tuesday night as a handful of protesters wearing blue ribbons -- indicating an anti-Occupy stance -- were mobbed by hundreds of Occupy student protesters.

'We are fighting for our future'

The protesters have blocked several main highways in the city for more than a week as they seek to change a decision by China's ruling Communist Party on how the next election for Hong Kong's top leader will work.

At their peak, the demonstrations brought tens of thousands of Hong Kong residents together in spectacular fashion, covering large areas of the semiautonomous territory's central business district in a sea of people.

'Disrupting my life'

But that was last week, when two back-to-back public holidays put work and classes on hold for a lot of people.

As activity has cranked back up in the financial and commercial hub in recent days, crowds at the protest sites have thinned significantly and signs of discontent among other residents have spread.

"I am very angry because this movement is disrupting my life," said Polly Lau, an elderly woman who has lived in Mong Kok all her life. "I think there will be a rebellion actually, a rebellion of the other 7 million people in Hong Kong against them."

The protests have blocked bus and tram routes, worsening traffic and putting more strain on the city's rail network. Some businesses, offices and schools have closed temporarily.

In Tuesday's altercation in Admiralty, a known pro-Beijing activist, Lee See Yin, attempted to address crowds from street level through a megaphone and was surrounded by an angry crowd of hundreds of student protesters who began screaming to drown her out.

She insisted that she was also from Hong Kong and had a right to be heard, asking the crowds, "Is this real democracy?"

The altercation, which involved verbal assault but no apparent physical abuse, lasted 10 to 15 minutes.

Eventually, half a dozen police came over and formed a ring around the handful of anti-Occupy protesters, who then left the area escorted by the officers.

On Sunday, a group of about 30 taxi drivers carried out their own protest to express their frustration with the pro-democracy sit-ins, which they said were affecting their livelihoods, according to local broadcaster RTHK.

Who's powering the Hong Kong protests?

Hong Kong protestors hacked through app
But the protest movement also commands a lot of sympathy among residents of the city, especially after police used tear gas and pepper spray in a failed effort to disperse demonstrators on September 28 -- tactics seen by many as overly harsh.

Is it safe to travel to Hong Kong?

Is it 'deal time'?

Some commentators are arguing that now is a good moment for demonstrators to cash in their chips before they lose too much support.

"The longer this drags on, the more student activists risk looking to average Hongkongers like irritants," wrote William Pesek, an Asia-Pacific columnist for Bloomberg View, suggesting it's now "deal time for Hong Kong's students."

"Why not parlay what's been achieved so far into meaningful concessions from the government?" Pesek said.

His suggestion follows calls from some prominent figures, including the heads of local universities, for students to leave the protest sites for their own safety. Other observers have noted that the demonstrators have succeeded in putting the democracy issue back on the agenda.

But it remains uncertain what kind of deal the protesters might be able to reach with the government. One of the movement's demands has been the resignation of Hong Kong's top leader, Chief Executive C.Y. Leung.

Increasing fatigue

Some demonstrators have said they are running out of steam after enduring long days and nights camped out on the asphalt amid stifling heat and torrential downpours.

"I'm tired, but I think we have to stay a while longer," said Kristine Wu, a student who has been at the main protest site on Hong Kong Island for a week.

Are you there? Share images, if you can safely

'We really have to stand strong'

Other protesters among the depleted crowd still holding firm at the site Tuesday expressed similar determination to stay put until some kind of result was achieved.

"We really have to stand strong," said Luk Kam Yan, a student who had been protesting for eight days. "There's been a lot of rumors about clearing out, but I feel if we stay here, we still have a bit of bargaining power."

Student leaders have said they will continue the protest until they have productive talks with the government and expressed optimism that their supporters will stick with them.

"Many protesters need rest after nine days of occupation," Lester Shum, the deputy secretary general of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, said Monday. "I don't believe they are already giving up. When they have recovered, they will return."

But the government appears content to watch the demonstrators' numbers dwindle as negotiations drag on.

It isn't just about taking back our roads.  It is about demonstrating how morally corrupt civil disobedience is, and how it will achieve nothing in the future. 

[Jacob]

It isn't just about taking back our roads.  It is about demonstrating how morally corrupt civil disobedience is, and how it will achieve nothing in the future.

You're the one who's morally corrupt

[Jacob]

Seems like CY Leung has been taking some big payoffs:

BREAKING NEWS: Hong Kong leader CY Leung received secret payments of four million pounds (HK$50 million) from Australian business people with expansion plans in East Asia, it was revealed today.

He received the money in two batches, in 2012 and 2013, after he became Chief Executive. He did not declare the income in the register of interests in Hong Kong.

Wealthy businessman Richard Leupen, boss of Australian company UGL, asked Leung to sign a contract with details of the payments. But investigative journalists working for Fairfax Media, publisher of The Age newspaper, got hold of the contract.

In response, Mr Leung's office has just released a statement claiming that he was not legally required to reveal such payments in Hong Kong, and alleging that the payments were for matters dealing with the period before he became Chief Executive.

However, Australian journalists released the actual document—which clearly says that Leung agrees to "provide such assistance in the promotion of the UGL group and DTZ Group as UGL may reasonably require".

It describes the help as "including but not limited to acting as a referee and advisor from time to time". Leung added the words "providing that such assistance does not create any conflict of interest" and signed the document.

Also of concern is the nature of the deal that brought Leung and the Australian company together. The Aussies bought DTZ Holdings, a troubled property company: Leung was chairman of the property company's Asia-Pacific arm. Reporters said the secret deal left Mr Leung with a huge pay-off, "but left DTZ's other shareholders and unsecured creditors with nothing, wiping out investments and debts worth tens of millions of dollars", the Age reports.

The revelation is going to put pressure on Leung at a difficult time. He has just been accused by hundreds of thousands of his own citizens of giving a misleading report to Beijing over the desire of Hong Kong people to have democracy.

In my view, this is going to cause huge damage to Leung's prospects of surviving in his role. Even if his lawyers can argue that he did not have to reveal the payments, the issues of lack of transparency are going to taint him.

Another take on it here: http://www.smh.com.au/world/hong-kong-leader-leung-chunyings-hidden-dealings-will-not-endear-him-to-protesters-20141008-113a3q.html

... maybe he'll resign after all?

[CountDeMoney]

Aussiegate!

[crazy canuck]

It isn't just about taking back our roads.  It is about demonstrating how morally corrupt civil disobedience is, and how it will achieve nothing in the future.

Civil disobedience is morally corrupt?

[MadImmortalMan]

It isn't just about taking back our roads.  It is about demonstrating how morally corrupt civil disobedience is, and how it will achieve nothing in the future.

Civil disobedience is morally corrupt?

Depends on what it entails, I would think. Refusing to go into the tanks when Chairman Yang tells you to would not be. A black dude drinking from the white only water fountain would not be.

[crazy canuck]

It isn't just about taking back our roads.  It is about demonstrating how morally corrupt civil disobedience is, and how it will achieve nothing in the future.

Civil disobedience is morally corrupt?

Depends on what it entails, I would think. Refusing to go into the tanks when Chairman Yang tells you to would not be. A black dude drinking from the white only water fountain would not be.

What form of civil disobedience would be morally corrupt?

[Martinus]

The Hong Kong Leader's Daughter Bragged About Her Fabulous Taxpayer-Funded Life On Social Media

A Facebook account linked to Chai Yan Leung, the daughter of Hong Kong's leader, CY Leung, disappeared during the past 24 hours after a post about her "beautiful shoes and dresses and clutches" angered protesters who are calling for her father's ouster.

However, the Facebook page wasn't the only social media account linked to Leung that documented her high-fashion shopping sprees. An Instagram account in Leung's name remains online and features pictures of her custom-made bags, designer shoes, and trips around the world.

On Tuesday, Leung's Facebook page made news again after she wrote a note that was apparently a response to negative comments about a necklace that appeared in her profile photo.

"This is actually a beautiful necklace bought at Lane Crawford (yes- funded by all you HK taxpayers!! So are all my beautiful shoes and dresses and clutches!! Thank you so much!!!!) Actually maybe I shouldn't say 'all you'- since most of you here are probably unemployed hence have all this time obsessed with bombarding me with messages," the note said.

The note also included shots at Leung's critics for their intelligence and ability to speak English. View the full post below:



After the Facebook post made headlines, the page was removed. However, an Instagram account that linked to Leung's Facebook and contains many pictures that appear to show her remains active. It also includes photos that seem to show her bags, shoes, and other purchases.

Check out photos from the Instagram account below.

Leung, who was 22 as of earlier this year, apparently enjoys monogrammed purses.

Here's more of the tweets and posts:

http://www.businessinsider.com/daughter-of-hong-kong-leader-facebook-posts-2014-10

I really hope she and her family follow the footsteps of another stupid bitch who once told "protesters" to eat cake.