Dispatches from the State Ministry of Truth

[DontSayBanana]

Think whatever you want to think, I don't really care.  But it is a valid position to hope for peace and stability.  Like I said, we are not North Korea, or even Eastern Europe pre-1989.  We are one of the richest cities in the world, and I can access whatever website I want.  I don't have any major problems with the regime.  I can see why others may think differently, but there is no excuse to block roads and attack police. 

You do realize that's going to be one of the first things to go if Beijing gets its way, right?  Say bye-bye to Google and easy access to your precious pirate anime sites.

[Monoriu]

Think whatever you want to think, I don't really care.  But it is a valid position to hope for peace and stability.  Like I said, we are not North Korea, or even Eastern Europe pre-1989.  We are one of the richest cities in the world, and I can access whatever website I want.  I don't have any major problems with the regime.  I can see why others may think differently, but there is no excuse to block roads and attack police. 

You do realize that's going to be one of the first things to go if Beijing gets its way, right?  Say bye-bye to Google and easy access to your precious pirate anime sites.

You do realise that the pirate anime sites CAN be accessed even from the mainland, right?    Like Beijing cares about the copyrights of Japanese firms. 

[Jacob]

HK is divided.  It isn't "the dictatorship vs the people".  It is "half the population against the other" and "haves vs have-nots".  It is difficult for me to explain this, but it is really difficult to describe a policeman as being a "have-not".  Their circles of friends will tend to be haves.

Interesting.

And would you say that it's close to 50-50? That actually about half the people in Hong Kong are doing fine with the status quo?

[Monoriu]

HK is divided.  It isn't "the dictatorship vs the people".  It is "half the population against the other" and "haves vs have-nots".  It is difficult for me to explain this, but it is really difficult to describe a policeman as being a "have-not".  Their circles of friends will tend to be haves.

Interesting.

And would you say that it's close to 50-50? That actually about half the people in Hong Kong are doing fine with the status quo?

It is complicated.  The pan-democrats consistently get around 60% of the votes in legislative council elections.  The pro-establishment camp gets around 40%.  But among that 60%, not all of them support civil disobedience.  There is a whole spectrum among the pan-democratic camp.  Some are radicals, and some are conservative. 

Traditionally, there are 3 main camps in HK.  The left (pro-Beijing; communists are technically on the left), the pro-business camp, and the pro-democracy camp.  On political matters, the left and the business camp join hands.  On welfare policies, the left and the democrats join hands.  The civil service tends toward the pro-business group and is hated by both the left and the democrats for trying to balance the budget.  The problem is both the left and the democrats get votes; the pro-business camp doesn't.  The pro-business camp still retains enormous powers because half the legislative council seats are "functional constituencies", i.e. all the accountants elect a representative, all the business chambers elect two, etc. 

So, it is complicated, not "government vs the people". 

[Grinning_Colossus]

I'm surprised that the left-communist contingent is so large in a place like Hong Kong. Do you have a sense of what the political spectrum is like in Mainland China?

[Monoriu]

I'm surprised that the left-communist contingent is so large in a place like Hong Kong. Do you have a sense of what the political spectrum is like in Mainland China?

They are large.  They have their own eco-system, their own schools, their own newspapers, their own businesses, and their businesses offer jobs for their own people.  But like I said, a lot of people in HK are happy with the way things are.  The 40% who vote for the leftist candidates are not necessarily leftists themselves.  They are just happy with the status quo.  Life is good for a lot of people here. 

[Martinus]

I think they should do better in their exams, and join the finance sector

You yourself said that only a tiny minority of people will be able to join the finance sector. So where does that leave the people who cannot?

That's the point.  There is a set number of people who can get the good jobs.  The exams are graded on a curve.  Only a certain percentage will win no matter what.  If one person does better, another will automatically become worse by default. 

And so, in your way, you agree with me that the people out there protesting are following one of the few rational courses of action available to them. Because every one of them who succeeds in following your advice knocks someone else down into the position where it makes sense to them to take to the streets to agitate for democracy.

My own unscientific estimate is that the exam fails 95% of the students 

I wonder if Mono is trolling or a callous horrible little man.

[CountDeMoney]

I am tempted to go, give some words of encouragement to the riot police guarding the gates and cheer them.

Yes, by all means, please approach riot police in the middle of a crowd control exercise.  They love that.

[Zanza]

mono's hostility toward the protestors doesn't mean he's unreasonable. the protestors are causing mayhem and violence in his home. no civilized government would allow thousands of protestors to prevent an important sector of a city from functioning.

There doesn't seem to be violence. Blocking a road is something that a lot of Western governments would allow in order for the people to demonstrate.

[Syt]

 :nelson:mono is the kind of guy who would gladly rat out his neighbor for hiding Jews if it was to his personal benefit and feel good about his obedience to the authorities.

[Monoriu]

I think they should do better in their exams, and join the finance sector

You yourself said that only a tiny minority of people will be able to join the finance sector. So where does that leave the people who cannot?

That's the point.  There is a set number of people who can get the good jobs.  The exams are graded on a curve.  Only a certain percentage will win no matter what.  If one person does better, another will automatically become worse by default. 

And so, in your way, you agree with me that the people out there protesting are following one of the few rational courses of action available to them. Because every one of them who succeeds in following your advice knocks someone else down into the position where it makes sense to them to take to the streets to agitate for democracy.

My own unscientific estimate is that the exam fails 95% of the students 

I wonder if Mono is trolling or a callous horrible little man.

All depends on what you think "passing" means.  If passing means getting a good office job, then I think 5% is about right.  There are only so many professional trainee, management trainee, and investment banking positions available every year. 

[Monoriu]

:nelson:mono is the kind of guy who would gladly rat out his neighbor for hiding Jews if it was to his personal benefit and feel good about his obedience to the authorities.

You still don't know me    I hate my neighbours, and I avoid them as much as possible.  But that also means I know nothing about them 

[Monoriu]

mono's hostility toward the protestors doesn't mean he's unreasonable. the protestors are causing mayhem and violence in his home. no civilized government would allow thousands of protestors to prevent an important sector of a city from functioning.

There doesn't seem to be violence. Blocking a road is something that a lot of Western governments would allow in order for the people to demonstrate.

We let protesters use roads all the time.  That isn't new.  Happens every week.  What is new, is that they explicitly say their purpose is to occupy key roads indefinitely until their demands are met.  This is not acceptable.

[MadImmortalMan]

There is a difference between protesting and blocking infrastructure.

I would be a terrible Frenchman. 

[Tonitrus]

I have a secret...

Protesters block buildings/infrastructure because, if they didn't, the protests would be ignored/ineffective.