70 Years Ago This Week Operation Market Garden

[grumbler]

Finally got around to watching Theirs Is The Glory and agree that it has it moments.  It is very poorly paced, though, and the narration sounds like it was written by somebody who wrote soap commercials for a living.   Production values are about zero, which is what you'd expect for a film shot that year of scarcity.  It also just covers the battle for Arheim, and doesn't really explain why the defeat occurred, just that the Brits were heroes, every chap amongst 'em.  It has some nice visuals, though, for all the lack of camera and sound quality.  I'd say that A Bridge Too Far does a much better job both as history and as entertainment. 

[Valmy]

Actually, the Marne simply decided where the trenches would be dug.

1. What is this historical determinism hour?  Trench warfare had not started yet.

2. The trenches were not dug on the Marne, many other battles would decide where they were to be dug.

The myth that it saved France is easily disproven by the fact that the Germans had already swung short of Paris before the battle had begun.

1. The goal of the Schlieffen plan was not to capture Paris it was to destroy the French Army.  Von Kluck's turn was in service of that goal, in addition to keeping the armies together.  It just so happened Joffre had formed two more armies and stripped his southern flank and managed to fight it off.  I am not sure how tight the battle really was since I am not sure how closely, in fact, the Germans were to breaking through the 9th Army.

2. There is no evidence that I can see that France was prepared to surrender even if they had conquered Paris anyway.

I'd say the Paris taxi shuttle is a much bigger symbol of the battle than the nonsensical Foch quote that no one remembers.

Huh?  Anybody who knows jack about that battle knows that quote.  It took place at the decisive moment when the Germans were trying to force the front of the 9th army.

[Valmy]

I didn't know the Marne was the most decisive battle of WWI.

Well there are not many to choose from

What is your candidate?

[Valmy]

I sometimes don't get the priorities for battle anniversaries on Languish 

The priority is whatever Mongers or Tim decide they want to start a thread about.

[CountDeMoney]

I didn't know the Marne was the most decisive battle of WWI.

Well there are not many to choose from

What is your candidate?

Belleau Wood, dammit.     USA USA USA

[sbr]

Huh?  Anybody who knows jack about that battle knows that quote.  It took place at the decisive moment when the Germans were trying to force the front of the 9th army.

I don't know shit about WWI but I know that quote.

[grumbler]

Actually, the Marne simply decided where the trenches would be dug.

1. What is this historical determinism hour?  Trench warfare had not started yet.

What is this, lack of reading comprehension hour?  I said "would be dug."  That's future.

2. The trenches were not dug on the Marne, many other battles would decide where they were to be dug.

Many battles, none of them as large and significant as the Marne. 

1. The goal of the Schlieffen plan was not to capture Paris it was to destroy the French Army.  Von Kluck's turn was in service of that goal, in addition to keeping the armies together.  It just so happened Joffre had formed two more armies and stripped his southern flank and managed to fight it off.  I am not sure how tight the battle really was since I am not sure how closely, in fact, the Germans were to breaking through the 9th Army.

The Germans abandoned the Schlieffen Plan when they turned in front of Paris.  The Schlieffen Plan included the capture of the city.  The Battle of the Marne came about because the Germans were improvising in the face of the (probably inevitable) breakdown of their logistics.

2. There is no evidence that I can see that France was prepared to surrender even if they had conquered Paris anyway.

A moot point when discussing the Battle of the Marne.

Huh?  Anybody who knows jack about that battle knows that quote. 

The purest form of argument by assertion.  Thanks.  I haven't seen such a specimen in years.

[CountDeMoney]

I like how grumbler's variable-geometry posts sweep back when he goes grumblersonic.

[Ed Anger]

"A radish will never stand in the way of victory' - Marshall Foch.".

[Ed Anger]

I like how grumbler's variable-geometry posts sweep back when he goes grumblersonic.

Launch the Alert 5. Martim-28's coming in fast!

[Jacob]

I like how grumbler's variable-geometry posts sweep back when he goes grumblersonic.

What's the most important battle of Languish, I wonder...

[Razgovory]

I like how grumbler's variable-geometry posts sweep back when he goes grumblersonic.

What's the most important battle of Languish, I wonder...

2003 battle of EUOT.  We made a short tactical retreat.  Once we shore up our numbers we'll bring the fight back to them.

[Eddie Teach]

Once we shore up our numbers

lulz

[Razgovory]

I didn't know the Marne was the most decisive battle of WWI.

Well there are not many to choose from

What is your candidate?

I posted a couple.

[Valmy]

I didn't know the Marne was the most decisive battle of WWI.

Well there are not many to choose from

What is your candidate?

I posted a couple.

Ah I missed that.  I mean obviously Amien and the Hundred Days offensive was decisive in the sense that they ended the war.  But I am not sure if I follow that Tannenberg and the Masurian Lakes would be more decisive than the Marne.  The Russians still could have won in the Carpathians.