Canadian Language Education Questions

[Grallon]

Grallon, the way it works is you're supposed to wait until *after* someone insults you to take offense.

I wasn't responding to you Yi 



G.

[Berkut]

...

Which suggests to me that the goal of what the independence crowd wants is very much about who is speaking French in Quebec...or rather, who is not.

As clueless as I expected you to be on the topic...  But I forget - according to Jacob only non Quebecers are authorities on the subject of Quebec and its independence movement... *shakes head*  What a ludicrous farce!

I'll tell you what would happen should we (finally) decide to leave this stinking federation - all current legal and constitutional protections & guarantees would be repealed faster than you can blink - and the remaining french minorities would be forced to assimilate so fast they wouldn't even have time to breathe.

I mean, we're still there and that's already their long term goal - it's been so since day one!  A token bilingualism while assimilation is encouraged on a daily basis.

WE are the only real bilingual citizens of this pretend bilingual federation.



G.

Funny that you accuse me of being clueless and then immediately affirm exactly my point.

[Berkut]

I'll tell you what would happen should we (finally) decide to leave this stinking federation - all current legal and constitutional protections & guarantees would be repealed faster than you can blink -
G.

And you guys wonder why you get called nazis.

[Grallon]

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This doesn't even deserve an answer.



G.

[viper37]

3.)  If you are French/English Canadian how much English/French did you study?

sufficient knowledge of English as a second language is required for many university faculties.

Keep in mind that after high school (if we intend to go to a university), we first go to College for 2 or 3 years, depending on the field of study (the 3 year is somewhat credited in university, if you have sufficient grades).

Using my experience of college, you have basic english, intermediate english, advanced english, and literary english.  Litereray english is often not teached outside of Quebec city and Montreal's colleges beceause there's not enough people good enough to attend this. 

So, using this system, many university faculties require a level of intermediate english to be graduated.  If you didn't reach this level in College, you have to attend classes at university.  College is mostly free (a few hundred bucks per term), university is a few thousand per terms.  The quality of english education is very good in semi-private & private schools, excellent in college and universities, average in public schools (but so are maths and french classes, but these differences no longer shows by the time you reach university).

Pre-college schools in Quebec is restricted to french for those students whose parents attended french schools.
If at least one parent has attended english school in any Commonwealth country, they are allowed to send their kids to english public schools.

There are three kind of schools in Quebec (pre-university):
- public (100% subsidized)
- semi-private (60% subsidized)
- private (0% subsidized)

While most people will not make any distinction between the last two, they are important for language classifications.
Francophones parents, or American parents, willing to send their kids to an english school will need to do so at a private school (0% subsidies).

The military are allowed to send their kids to any school they want, so long as there is one in their community.  Wich isn't a problem where there are bases in Quebec.

If a child attends english private schools for a few years, it is then possible for it to transfer to a public english school and then obtain the same rights for his future kids.

Nothing extremely harsh.  The laws lack some flexibility, I myself would simply offer english school to children who already started school in english outside Quebec, no matter if it's New York or London.  that whole Commonwealth thing is a bit of sillyness imposed by the Supreme court.

Immersion is new for this year. Or last year.  Can't remember.  Anyway, about half of the last year in elementary school is done in English if you're attending french school.

Other types of specialized schools exists, both public and fully private, some offering classes in english, spanish & french, but I don't know much about them.

[Berkut]

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This doesn't even deserve an answer.



G.

Yeah, because what is there to say? You have affirmed my suspicion that the desire for independence is motivated by a wish to restrict others freedom, which the Canadian government will not allow.

Personally, I think calling you a nazi is probably a little over much, but I can certainly understand why people might use the term to describe someone advocating state sponsored bigotry and intolerance.

Must suck for the vipers out there to have people like you on his side.

[viper37]

So based on this thread it sounds like that in all students in Canada should have some familiarity with both official languages; is that a fair assessment?

French speakers start english lessons in 1st grade.
English speakers start french lessons in 7th grade.

One of the complaints put forth in the independence thread deals with the lack of bilingual speakers and services outside of Quebec.  If there was a separation, though, it seems likely that Canada would put less emphasis on bilingual education and leave Francophones even more restricted in their opportunities.

Canada already does a poor job at that.  Yes, it would be worst for them in case of Quebec seperation, wich is why you don't see many "5th column" promoting Quebec sovereignty in Manitoba

French education was forbidden for nearly 100 years (early after the confederation/integration of the province in the confederation) in most provinces of Canada, Manitoba was the last be ordered to finance public schools in the 90s.  New Brunswick and Ontario won their battle in the 70s/80s.  It was also naturally forbiden for any laws.  Even today in Alberta, laws aren't translated and if there are contradictions between english and french texts, english prevails.

That made assimilation go way faster than had French been tolerated, put on equal terms with english.  So now, many english canadians are invoking the fact that there are not enough french speakers in their community to provide services in french.

What you see nowadays is parents turning toward private immersion schools because public schools are simply abandoning french classes.  It's a way to get around the law for provinces, mostly.

And the Federal government refuses to set a foot in this debate.  But I wouldn't even try it in Quebec, if I wanted to deprive our English speaking friends of their rights.

[Grallon]

I was describing what the Anglo Canadian govt would do after we leave their federation you moron.   Pfff  You can't even read English properly.




G.

[garbon]

So based on this thread it sounds like that in all students in Canada should have some familiarity with both official languages; is that a fair assessment?

French speakers start english lessons in 1st grade.
English speakers start french lessons in 7th grade.

It likely goes without saying, but that's probably overly broad, right?

[Berkut]

I was describing what the Anglo Canadian govt would do after we leave their federation you moron.   Pfff  You can't even read English properly.




G.

Of course you were.

[garbon]

I was describing what the Anglo Canadian govt would do after we leave their federation you moron.   Pfff  You can't even read English properly.




G.

But that doesn't really make sense. Even here in the US, we afford some support for non-English languages. I don't see why the remainder of Canada would not.

Besides, do you deny B's charge that you'd want to clamp down / make French the language to speak in Quebec?

[viper37]

My impression is that most, if not all, anglophone residents of Quebec are bilingual.

88% as of 2011. 80% for 0-19.
It's good, but compare this to French-English bilinguism outside of Quebec.  Unless you rely on someone else, pretty much impossible to really be unilingual french, even in predominantly french areas.

French-english bilinguism in Quebec is at 36% (54% for 20-44yo).  Way too low.  But the recent changes in english education, despite heavy resistance from the left, should help in the long term.

[Grallon]

But that doesn't really make sense. Even here in the US, we afford some support for non-English languages. I don't see why the remainder of Canada would not.

Let's just say that Canada - the Anglo portion of it - doesn't have the same confidence in itself that America has...  Plus we know them a great deal more than you people do....

Besides, do you deny B's charge that you'd want to clamp down / make French the language to speak in Quebec?

French *is* already the only official public language now - this would merely be reaffirmed and enforced.  Speak whatever you like in your private homes and private institutions - but when you come out in public - you bloody well better be speaking french.  Isn't this the very definition of individual rights?

Unless you utterly reject the very notion of a french speaking public sphere of course...



G.

[viper37]

So based on this thread it sounds like that in all students in Canada should have some familiarity with both official languages; is that a fair assessment?

French speakers start english lessons in 1st grade.
English speakers start french lessons in 7th grade.

It likely goes without saying, but that's probably overly broad, right?

I think it's 1hr a week in 1st to 3rd grade.  It then increases gradually in 4th, 5th grade and then half a year in english for 6th grade, for all classes.
Can't be sure about the exact numbers, don't trust me on this.  Tried to find it, found a lenghy document filled with educational mumbo jumbo that doesn't make any sense, can't find the total hours per week dedicated to english, decided to forget about it.

As for the english, this is valid for Ontario and New Brunswick. Don't think it's radically different in other provinces.

[Razgovory]

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This doesn't even deserve an answer.



G.

You probably shouldn't use a statue representing the Nazi party as your avatar if you don't like being called a Nazi.