Scottish Independence

[Gups]

Yes. But that doesn't mean the Tories would rule England in perpetuity. There's only been two elections since the war when the Scottish vote changed the result (1964 and 1974).

And 2010.

True enough. On that basis we can blame the Scots for Nick Clegg and hope they bugger off

Ironically, if Scotland hadn't been part of the UK, the LibDem vote wouldn't have collapsed for the Holyrood elections, the SNP woudl not have got a majority and there would have been no referendum! 

[Martinus]

The Faroese independence movement has been mature for quite a while now. They do have one stumbling bloc. Denmark not only insists on them taking their share of the national debt, but also not paying them their subsidies anymore. So independence movement is mothballed for the time being.

I thought Denmark didn't have any national debt. 

[Sheilbh]

If all Scottish citizens will also remain automatically British citizens, eligible for all the sweet things British welfare provides, minus the need to ever contribute a penny to it, well, then England will really be taken for a fool here.

You know that EU citizens can claim welfare too if they jump through a few hoops? Hence a lot of the moaning about EU immigrants (which is wrong as they're far more likely to be working than not). Our system in general is contribution based, in general you don't get stuff unless you're really destitute or have paid into National Insurance. Swap Scots with Romanians and you sound like the Daily Mail

But this was how Irish independence was treated. I believe they could retain their British passport and they had special rights to move, work and be on the dole here and to vote. I imagine most Scots would be offered the option of dual citizenship, English only or Scottish only but on both sides of the border they'd still be able to work etc.

[Barrister]

That's fine.  I'm sure London would actually love to be rid of the Falklands actually.  It's just that peskily the Falkland Islanders really don't want to be part of Argentina (though who can blame them!).

I always thought Argentina would catch more Malvinas flies with honey...

Yep on both points. The Falklands costs a lot for a few rocks and some sheep. But the people feel and want to stay British, so we can't fob them off. Which is in part an unintended consequence of the way the Argentine government are. I always think it's similar with Gibraltar.

That kind of turns back to my earlier point: if the yes wins today, what about the 40%+ population of Scotland who wants to stay in Britain as much as the Falklanders? How come the government may end up telling cca. 4 million people: "sorry guys, some blokes are taking your citizenship away, and saying no would be rude. Bye!"

Because that's how democracy works.  Same reason why Scotland is ruled by a Tory-led minority, despite only one Tory MP being elected in Scotland.

I'm sure any Scot who wishes it will be given a rUK passport and allowed to move if they so desire.

[Martinus]

What if: Argentina promises X amount of money per citizen if Falklands join them. Falklands demand a Scottish-style referendum.

That's fine.  I'm sure London would actually love to be rid of the Falklands actually.  It's just that peskily the Falkland Islanders really don't want to be part of Argentina (though who can blame them!).

I always thought Argentina would catch more Malvinas flies with honey...

I think there could be a compromise - Argentina gets the Malvinas, provided that Falklands stay with the UK. 

[Warspite]

That kind of turns back to my earlier point: if the yes wins today, what about the 40%+ population of Scotland who wants to stay in Britain as much as the Falklanders? How come the government may end up telling cca. 4 million people: "sorry guys, some blokes are taking your citizenship away, and saying no would be rude. Bye!"

Those 40%+ can start a unionist movement, convince the rest of the electorate of the value of rejoining the UK, and then suggest an Act of Union redux

[Josquius]

If all Scottish citizens will also remain automatically British citizens, eligible for all the sweet things British welfare provides, minus the need to ever contribute a penny to it, well, then England will really be taken for a fool here.

You know that EU citizens can claim welfare too if they jump through a few hoops? Hence a lot of the moaning about EU immigrants (which is wrong as they're far more likely to be working than not). Our system in general is contribution based, in general you don't get stuff unless you're really destitute or have paid into National Insurance. Swap Scots with Romanians and you sound like the Daily Mail

But this was how Irish independence was treated. I believe they could retain their British passport and they had special rights to move, work and be on the dole here and to vote. I imagine most Scots would be offered the option of dual citizenship, English only or Scottish only but on both sides of the border they'd still be able to work etc.

Irish independence was in a rather different age though. And it was a very messy affair what with the wars and Southern Ireland and all that.
It just wouldn't be fair at all for scots to keep their british passport here

[Martinus]

That kind of turns back to my earlier point: if the yes wins today, what about the 40%+ population of Scotland who wants to stay in Britain as much as the Falklanders? How come the government may end up telling cca. 4 million people: "sorry guys, some blokes are taking your citizenship away, and saying no would be rude. Bye!"

Those 40%+ can start a unionist movement, convince the rest of the electorate of the value of rejoining the UK, and then suggest an Act of Union redux

Not sure if the rest of the UK would want them back though.

[Tamas]

That kind of turns back to my earlier point: if the yes wins today, what about the 40%+ population of Scotland who wants to stay in Britain as much as the Falklanders? How come the government may end up telling cca. 4 million people: "sorry guys, some blokes are taking your citizenship away, and saying no would be rude. Bye!"

Those 40%+ can start a unionist movement, convince the rest of the electorate of the value of rejoining the UK, and then suggest an Act of Union redux

what could go wrong. It's not like disjoining and uniting countries would be complicated and expensive affairs. Can be done during afternoon tea.

[frunk]

Those 40%+ can start a unionist movement, convince the rest of the electorate of the value of rejoining the UK, and then suggest an Act of Union redux

Or congregate in a portion of Scotland, hold a referendum with 50+1 and rejoin that part to the UK.

[Zanza]

Not sure if the rest of the UK would want them back though.

They could hold a referendum on that. 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Although I must say, seeing all the socialist fapping over the idea of a free Scotland (my favourite has been this Scottish dude Sunday morning on BBC, becoming a Lenin-imitator in his enthusiasm for the coming creation of true socialism in Scotland), I might not be against not sharing a country with them
But of course I am just a recent guest here so I am not delving into politics much, nor feel like I am member of the political community.

here the lefties (socialists and the watermelon-greens (green on the outside, red on the inside)) are quite flabberghasted. For decades they've been shouting loud how nationalism is extreme-right and now that whole edifice is coming down on their heads. Suckers.

[The Brain]

That kind of turns back to my earlier point: if the yes wins today, what about the 40%+ population of Scotland who wants to stay in Britain as much as the Falklanders? How come the government may end up telling cca. 4 million people: "sorry guys, some blokes are taking your citizenship away, and saying no would be rude. Bye!"

Those 40%+ can start a unionist movement, convince the rest of the electorate of the value of rejoining the UK, and then suggest an Act of Union redux

Not sure if the rest of the UK would want them back though.

If no one asked them when Scotland left why ask them when Scotland returns?

[Zanza]

Will there be exit polls right after the election offices close?

[Sheilbh]

No exit polls.