Scottish Independence

[Caliga]

In America I don't think there's been a moment of serious secessionism since the ACW, and I think if you held an election in the most pro-secession State today it'd win less than 5% of the vote in that State.

Agree.  Southerners may love the south but they love being AMURIKKKAN just as much.

On a related topic, I actually saw a dude at Burger King today wearing a baseball cap with a Confederate flag on it.  He got in line right behind a big black dude with dreds.  I was hoping for some fireworks but the black guy either didn't notice or didn't care.

In general it's really rare to see people openly display that flag around here, but you see it occasionally on bumper stickers and shit.

[derspiess]

They ought to just use the Stars and Bars or Bonnie Blue flag. Then they could celebrate their Suthuhn heritage without most people knowing what the hell it is.

[Caliga]

The kind of person that is enough of a douche to walk around wearing/openly displaying a Confederate flag wouldn't be familiar with either of those.

In general I think it's weird for anyone around here to display SOUTHERN PRAHD since Kentucky didn't actually secede, most Kentuckians that served fought for the Union, and the South repeatedly attacked Kentucky.

[Martim Silva]

I can appreciate your view point and yes in some senses the Union can be seen as weak, but I'd argue the counterpart to that is the identify and history of being British, a Brit if you will, is very strong.

That, and the fact that 14% of the electorate isn't Scottish (of the 4.3 million voters, 500.000 are English, Welsh and Irish, and another 100.000 are from other countries). Since most of those will vote 'No' and the difference between the two sides is just 2-3 percentage points...

http://qz.com/262329/scots-arent-the-only-ones-voting-on-whether-scotland-should-become-independent/

Just because a minority of adult people in Scotland vote tomorrow to 'end' the union, doesn't have any real impact on Britishness and those of us who are a 'true Brits'.

By 'adult people', you also mean the 16 and 17-year-olds that will vote? 

In general I think it's weird for anyone around here to display SOUTHERN PRAHD since Kentucky didn't actually secede, most Kentuckians that served fought for the Union, and the South repeatedly attacked Kentucky.

Murky.

The southern part of Kentucky set up a shadow government that had the backing of it's southern population - just not enough to overthrow the government in Frankfort. And the State was officialy admitted in the Confederacy in December 1861.

Technically, the Confederacy saw moves into Kentucky as defending the State, while northern kentuckians saw it as invasions.

[garbon]

MSil is now going to try to teach Cal about the ACW?

[Eddie Teach]

MSil is now going to try to teach Cal about the ACW?

He's not wrong, Kentucky and Missouri were considered part of the CSA though their proper legislatures never seceded.

[garbon]

My point was that I don't think MSil is actually telling something Cal doesn't know and it was a bit boorish (presumptuous?) to take up the lectern.

[Caliga]

The Confederacy considered Kentucky to be a part of it, sure.  The Confederacy also considered itself to be independent.

The real Kentucky legislature in Frankfort never seceded, hence the state did not secede.

Also, when the Confederates violated Kentucky's neutrality, it was to fortify a position in Columbus on the Mississippi in order to defend the river, not to 'defend' Kentucky itself.

[Savonarola]

Agree.  Southerners may love the south but they love being AMURIKKKAN just as much.

On a related topic, I actually saw a dude at Burger King today wearing a baseball cap with a Confederate flag on it.  He got in line right behind a big black dude with dreds.  I was hoping for some fireworks but the black guy either didn't notice or didn't care.

In general it's really rare to see people openly display that flag around here, but you see it occasionally on bumper stickers and shit.

Once you get off the coast in this part of Florida you're in the country.  You'll see people selling boiled peanuts, gator jerky and ribs by the side of the road.  On time I was by DeLand and I saw a man with a knife sharpening stand.  He had a grinding wheel and an enormous confederate flag.  I wished I had an axe and a blood-spattered banker grey suit like in this fine sketch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7DKHlxU2j4

Chop! Chop!

[Caliga]

Oh I know, Sav.  I've been in rural northern Florida cracker country.

http://youtu.be/76cEnbrgHkY

[Capetan Mihali]

I just had the premonition, while washing a glass, that Scotland is actually going to vote Yes.  Neoliberalism (cue the guffaws) has simply deprived too many people of a vision of the future that includes them, left too many people alienated and aimless, and in such a time, "nationalism" is as good an ideological counterattack as any (though I'm not convinced this is a nationalist movement per se). 

I'd venture the majority of Britons wherever they're from would vote Yes to exit the UK, but of course they lack the convenient nation-state to devolve into.  If the UK appears to many Britons as little more than a City--Westminister axis (like America's Wall Street--Washington), can it really support the emotional investment in Britishness, the "imagined community" that the United Kingdom needs to survive?

[Savonarola]

Oh I know, Sav.  I've been in rural northern Florida cracker country.

http://youtu.be/76cEnbrgHkY

That's what the news is like every night around here.  My wife will frequently remark how "Articulate" the people interviewed are; as though she's continually amazed trailer park people here can form complete sentences.

[Caliga]

HE CAME IN DUKES OF HAZZARD GITTIN IT LIKE DALE JUNIOR

[Valmy]

Neoliberalism (cue the guffaws) has simply deprived too many people of a vision of the future that includes them, left too many people alienated and aimless, and in such a time, "nationalism" is as good an ideological counterattack as any (though I'm not convinced this is a nationalist movement per se). 

I am intrigued you think this is a political ideological phenomenon and not one of rapidly changing technology and its impacts.  People are alienated and aimless because the ways of life and assurances of the past are being swept away.  In this new world the people who own stuff are prospering because the need and value of human labor is decreasing.  Besides this is Britain with its big welfare state and cheap education and NHS.  Interesting that even with those things people are still feeling deprived of their future and aimless.  Doesn't that clue you in that perhaps ideology is not the issue here?

[Capetan Mihali]

The uses and non-uses of technology are inherently political.