Winning Friends and Influencing People the Richard Dawkins Way

[Sheilbh]

Richard Dawkins: 'immoral' not to abort if foetus has Down's syndrome
Scientist says a mother has a responsibility to 'abort it and try again' if she knows her baby would have the disorder
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theguardian.com, Thursday 21 August 2014 05.14 BST

Richard Dawkins says it would be immoral for a mother to continue with a pregnancy if the baby would be born with Down's syndrome. Photograph: Murdo Macleod

The scientist Richard Dawkins has become embroiled in another Twitter row, claiming it would be "immoral" to carry on with a pregnancy if the mother knew the foetus had Down's syndrome.

The British author made the comment in response to another user who said she would be faced with "a real ethical dilemma" if she became pregnant and learned that the baby would be born with the disorder.

Dawkins tweeted: "Abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world if you have the choice."

InYourFaceNewYorker @InYourFaceNYer
@RichardDawkins @AidanMcCourt I honestly don't know what I would do if I were pregnant with a kid with Down Syndrome. Real ethical dilemma.
Richard Dawkins        ✔ @RichardDawkins
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@InYourFaceNYer Abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world if you have the choice.
3:53 PM - 20 Aug 2014

He faced a backlash for his comment, with one mother, who has a child with the genetic condition, saying: "I would fight till my last breath for the life of my son. No dilemma."

Dawkins later defended his view, saying he would not apologise "for approaching moral philosophic questions in a logical way". He went on to point out that Down's syndrome foetuses are aborted in many cases, and that abortion was a woman's choice.

Richard Dawkins        ✔ @RichardDawkins
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Apparently I'm a horrid monster for recommending WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS to the great majority of Down Syndrome fetuses. They are aborted.

Some users supported the God Delusion author, agreeing with his assertion that there is a difference in deciding on a termination before a child is born, and suggesting after the child is born that it should have been aborted.

The Down's Syndrome Association (DSA) issued a response to Dawkins's initial comment. "People with Down's syndrome can and do live full and rewarding lives, they also make a valuable contribution to our society.

"At the Down's Syndrome Association we do not believe Down's syndrome in itself should be a reason for termination, however we realise that families must make their own choice.

"The DSA strives to ensure that all prospective parents are given accurate and up to date information about the condition and what life might be like today for someone with Down's syndrome."

Previously Dawkins has caused controversy on Twitter by saying the world's Muslims had won fewer Nobel prizes than Trinity College Cambridge; and by arguing some types of rape or paedophilia are worse than others, then telling people who couldn't understand his logic to "go away and learn how to think".

And then gave a wonderfully modern apology:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/aug/21/richard-dawkins-apologises-downs-syndrome-tweet

[Ed Anger]

Time to abort Atheists. I'll get the wire hangers.

[Sheilbh]

From the Daily Mash:

Dawkins now just telling random strangers why he hates them
21-08-14
RICHARD Dawkins has taken to walking down the street saying horrible, unprovoked things to total strangers.

The former scientist leaves his house in Oxford at 11am and immediately begins hurling brief insults at anyone who comes within 10 feet of him.

According to local residents, a typical 30 second burst will include phrases such as 'please don't have children', 'you look like a baptist', 'everything about your shoes sickens me' and 'your face seems to be inside out'.

Neighbour Martin Bishop said: "If he sees a woman in a burka coming towards him he'll shout, 'oh fucking hell, here we go'."

After an hour of 'strolling abuse' Dawkins will then go into a local cafe and choose a table next to two people having a conversation.

Victim Jane Thomson revealed: "He listened to us for about a minute and then leaned over, apologised for interrupting and told me I was an 'evil cretin' and my friend Sarah was a 'scandalous waste of evolution'.

"I tried to explain to him that we were just talking about Sarah's eight year-old son starting judo classes, at which point he got very angry and said it was like talking to a pile of elephant dung."

Dawkins said last night: "Why do I do it? What an immensely stupid question.

"Go and pick the nits off one of your friends."

[Razgovory]

Dawkins makes arguing against Viking easy.

[mongers]

He is a bit of a tool isn't he.


edit:

We really Must invite him here.

[Eddie Teach]

We really Must invite him here.

Viking? He's already here.

[Josquius]

He faced a backlash for his comment, with one mother, who has a child with the genetic condition, saying: "I would fight till my last breath for the life of my son. No dilemma."

I agree with him on this one. It does make sense if you know you're going to end up with a very disabled kid to start afresh.
Though his earlier rape analogy stuff was quite cringe inducing.

[Darth Wagtaros]

To sum up, "PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO ME! BUY MY BOOKS!"

[Razgovory]

He faced a backlash for his comment, with one mother, who has a child with the genetic condition, saying: "I would fight till my last breath for the life of my son. No dilemma."

I agree with him on this one. It does make sense if you know you're going to end up with a very disabled kid to start afresh.
Though his earlier rape analogy stuff was quite cringe inducing.

You should tell people that when you meet them.  "I think you mother should have aborted you, for the sake of human happiness".

[Capetan Mihali]

After I had some law school under my belt, a good friend asked me if I thought he could sue his mother for not aborting him.

Well, I was doubtful at first, but hell, I put my mind to it and hit the books and with a whole lot of elbow grease and a lot of fancy talking, we argued the case in front of the US Supreme Court, and goshdarnit they ruled in our favor. 

I told him it probably wasn't a recognized cause of action at this point.

[Martinus]

The problem with Dawkins is that he is perfectly logical and completely insensitive at the same time. Human morality has developed so that there is a lot of grey areas and answers are not always internally consistent and binary.

[Tonitrus]

Human history has shown pretty well that not every life is precious.

Though the instinct that it is a bad thing to harm/kill the innocent or those unable to defend themselves is something we should not cast off easily.  Even if we think we're doing them, or society, a favor by not letting them live a life we see as crappy.

[Martinus]

Human history has shown pretty well that not every life is precious.

Though the instinct that it is a bad thing to harm/kill the innocent or those unable to defend themselves is something we should not cast off easily.  Even if we think we're doing them, or society, a favor by not letting them live a life we see as crappy.

But then if you believed it, logically you should be against a right to abortion.

The thing is, we (by "we" I mean the mainstream liberal crowd) suspend our belief in "there is always a right decision" when it comes to abortion and decide to respect the mother's decision, whatever it is. People with absolutist minds (religious people, Dawkins) cannot cope with that.

[Tonitrus]

Granted.  Abortion is one of those nasty issues where one can argue that the rights of two lives are in conflict, and there are so many potential variables that it's hard not to be an absolutist one way or the other without being a complete waffle-case.

Or without, as "Yes Minister" aptly put it, "moral maneuverability".

[jimmy olsen]

He faced a backlash for his comment, with one mother, who has a child with the genetic condition, saying: "I would fight till my last breath for the life of my son. No dilemma."

How does that statement in anyway justify that emoticon?