The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[derspiess]

I'm angry for them. I'm furious on their behalf. What are the police doing to combat this image? What are police doing to help bridge this gap? How are they reaching out, helping, being part of the solution? By denying that it even exists.

That's a bit of a generalization.  From what I have gathered, the Dallas PD had been doing a hell of a lot of community outreach.  Which made it particularly painful that they got hit.

[merithyn]

I'm angry for them. I'm furious on their behalf. What are the police doing to combat this image? What are police doing to help bridge this gap? How are they reaching out, helping, being part of the solution? By denying that it even exists.

Why does every white Democratic woman engage in hysterical rhetoric that lumps all police together?

Hysterical? Really? Oh, sorry. I forgot. I have boobs and a vagina, ergo everything that I say is hysterical rhetoric.

By the way, to throw this out there so we both know where we stand, you'll respond and say something you consider clever and witty, and I'll ignore it and you. Because you're neither clever nor witty, as can be seen by the above comment, and there's no value in engaging you.

[Valmy]

I'm angry for them. I'm furious on their behalf. What are the police doing to combat this image? What are police doing to help bridge this gap? How are they reaching out, helping, being part of the solution? By denying that it even exists.

That's a bit of a generalization.  From what I have gathered, the Dallas PD had been doing a hell of a lot of community outreach.  Which made it particularly painful that they got hit.

Yep. Because of how the police are run it is not an evenly distributed problem.

[merithyn]

And as I said, I don't condone it. I don't want it happening. I don't want anyone else to die.

But I understand the anger, fear, and hatred that can cause someone to go that route.

Do you understand the anger, fear, and hatred that can cause some cops to go the route they have?

Absolutely. But one of these two have sworn to protect and serve. They've been given carte blanche to carry a gun - and to use it. So while the police have every right to be angry, afraid, and to hate those killing them, they have a legal and moral responsibility to step up and make changes that diffuses the situation. That's their job.

[derspiess]

From the perspective of those on the other side of this (ie black men in particular), no police officer is safe for them. Yes, it was just murdering innocent people, but not for no reason. It's out of fear for their lives.

Wait, are you saying the cop murderers in Dallas and Baton Rouge did so because they feared for their lives?  Seems pretty clear to me they did so out of pure revenge.

[Valmy]

Wait, are you saying the cop murderers in Dallas and Baton Rouge did so because they feared for their lives?  Seems pretty clear to me they did so out of pure revenge.

Yeah those two bastards sought out police and shot them, it was not fear/passion in the moment type deal. They were mentally disturbed psychos.

But it does show some of the destabilizing effects of not handling this issue.

[merithyn]

I am glad you are angry about this. I have been wanting people to be angry about this for decades. Welcome to the party.

Sweetie, I've been on this jag since before you could legally vote. Hell, probably since before you were out of elementary school. Don't think this is new for me just because I'm just now voicing it here.

There ARE cops reaching out. There ARE very good departments out there. And they are constantly posting goodwill shit all over social media in a desperate attempt to combat this dangerous image.  But there is no national cop organization, they are local. And in any case that is not going to do any good.

The problem is decades of counter-productive policies, training, and incentives typically as a result of the war on drugs that have gotten us to where we are (or rather where we have been for awhile). Those policies need to be reversed and very public and conscientious investigations of all shootings needs to occur. A shooting, no matter how justified, cannot be an internal matter. It is too socially destabilizing to not do that.

And this is where the problem lies. THIS is where the police need to step up - and out - to make changes. And where it's not happening. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I said "What are the police doing to combat this image? What are police doing to help bridge this gap? How are they reaching out, helping, being part of the solution? By denying that it even exists." By refusing to step out of the way, by refusing to have an unaffiliated third-party to look into these shootings (see Freddie Gray), these departments are refusing to acknowledge their culpability in the situation.

Edit: I meant unaffiliated third-party.

[merithyn]

I'm angry for them. I'm furious on their behalf. What are the police doing to combat this image? What are police doing to help bridge this gap? How are they reaching out, helping, being part of the solution? By denying that it even exists.

That's a bit of a generalization.  From what I have gathered, the Dallas PD had been doing a hell of a lot of community outreach.  Which made it particularly painful that they got hit.

Yeah, I read that, too. And they have, by all accounts, done a fantastic job with turning around the perception of their force because of it. From what I've read, they are sort of the poster children of how to handle all of this better.

So yes, you're right. That was a generalization.

[Valmy]

Sweetie, I've been on this jag since before you could legally vote. Hell, probably since before you were out of elementary school. Don't think this is new for me just because I'm just now voicing it here.

Ok then.

And this is where the problem lies. THIS is where the police need to step up - and out - to make changes. And where it's not happening. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I said "What are the police doing to combat this image? What are police doing to help bridge this gap? How are they reaching out, helping, being part of the solution? By denying that it even exists." By refusing to step out of the way, by refusing to have an affiliated third-party to look into these shootings (see Freddie Gray), these departments are refusing to acknowledge their culpability in the situation.

Yeah. The politicians and the voters will have to make it priority where the departments are not doing it themselves.

[merithyn]

Wait, are you saying the cop murderers in Dallas and Baton Rouge did so because they feared for their lives?  Seems pretty clear to me they did so out of pure revenge.

Yeah those two bastards sought out police and shot them, it was not fear/passion in the moment type deal. They were mentally disturbed psychos.

But it does show some of the destabilizing effects of not handling this issue.

I'm not saying that those two men did what they did because they feared for their lives. I'm saying that anyone could do what they did because they're tired of fearing for their lives. Not self-defense, but rather frustration at a system that obviously doesn't consider them on an equal footing with the rest of the country.

And Valmy has it right. At a certain point, something has to give. Things just can't keep going like this, or it's going to get worse for everyone across the board. Good police officers are dying alongside good citizens.

The difference is where the responsibility lies to make it better.

[MadBurgerMaker]

As a Twitter user said, "He was non-threatening, complied with every order, and told the officers exactly what was going on... and he still got shot. What's your excuse this time?"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/21/fla-man-says-his-hands-were-up-when-police-shot-him/87377306/

A black Florida man trying to calm his patient with autism was shot by a police officer Monday, despite having his hands in the air, he said Wednesday.

North Miami Assistant Police Chief Neal Cuevas said the incident happened when officers responded to a call that a man with a gun was walking around threatening to shoot himself, the Miami Herald reported. Charles Kinsey, a behavioral therapist, told WSVN-TV that the man police were searching for was his patient, who had escaped from a nearby group home, and the gun was actually a toy truck.

In cell phone video of the incident, Kinsey, 47, is seen laying on the ground with his hands in the air.

In the video, he repeatedly assures police the young man does not have a gun.

"All he has is a toy truck in his hands," Kinsey said in the video. "I am a behavior therapist at a group home."

Throughout the incident, Kinsey's patient refused to comply with police and lay down, although Kinsey encouraged him to follow the officers' directions.

"Rinaldo, please be still," he said in the clip. "Sit down Rinaldo. Lay on your stomach."

Kinsey told WSVN-TV, during the incident he was more worried about the patient than himself.

"I was thinking as long as I have my hands up ... they're not going to shoot me," he told the station, from his hospital bed.

Kinsey said moments later he was shot in the leg, and then handcuffed while the officers waited for medics to arrive.

I wonder if Officer Dumbshit was actually trying to shoot the obviously handicapped person sitting there with a toy truck, but sucked so bad he hit the guy next to him instead. 

[merithyn]

I wonder if Officer Dumbshit was actually trying to shoot the obviously handicapped person sitting there with a toy truck, but sucked so bad he hit the guy next to him instead.

That question came up. He clearly was a lousy shot, since he shot three times and only managed to leg the obviously non-threatening guy on the ground.

Of course, the autistic guy was white, so.... 

[Razgovory]

And as I said, I don't condone it. I don't want it happening. I don't want anyone else to die.

But I understand the anger, fear, and hatred that can cause someone to go that route.

Do you understand the anger, fear, and hatred that can cause some cops to go the route they have?

That's fine but,  fury, terror and loathing for blacks should be done off the clock and not on government time.

[grumbler]

I'm angry for them. I'm furious on their behalf. What are the police doing to combat this image? What are police doing to help bridge this gap? How are they reaching out, helping, being part of the solution? By denying that it even exists.

Why does every white Democratic woman engage in hysterical rhetoric that lumps all police together?

Hysterical? Really? Oh, sorry. I forgot. I have boobs and a vagina, ergo everything that I say is hysterical rhetoric.

By the way, to throw this out there so we both know where we stand, you'll respond and say something you consider clever and witty, and I'll ignore it and you. Because you're neither clever nor witty, as can be seen by the above comment, and there's no value in engaging you.

  I think that everyone but you (and maybe Raz) saw the deliberate absurdity of my statement (and thus the unknowing absurdity of yours).

Please, don't engage with me.  I am just making fun of your silly statements, not making conversation with you.  There is no value in 'conversing' with you.

[Valmy]

Yeah I figured grumbler was being ironic. Like rain on your....nevermind.