The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Admiral Yi]

This year could go down in history.

[jimmy olsen]

Servin cannot be retried on a murder charge because of double-jeopardy protections, according to his attorney, Darren O'Brien.

[/quote]

If he wasn't charged with murder than how would it be double jeopardy?

[CountDeMoney]

This year could go down in history.

For what?

[mongers]

This year could go down in history.

For what?

The last relatively sane one before Trumpcalypse next year.

[Valmy]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/us/michigan-courthouse-shooting/index.html

Well that is kind of unrelated. I mean you have to be pretty incompetent to let a suspect grab your gun so I guess that whole training part could be a tie in.

[citizen k]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-video-shooting-dylan-noble-20160707-snap-story.html

At least one use-of-force expert said the chief's statement that the shooting sequence lasted more than 2 minutes was odd.

"That would be highly unusual. It's usually no more than five to 20 seconds between the first and last shot," said Charles "Sid" Heal, a former Los Angeles County sheriff's commander.

In cases where lethal force was used, "each and every shot must be justified as protecting the public or officers," Heal said.

Deadly force could be deemed justified if the officers feared for their lives because Noble made repeated furtive movements, refused to show his hands and refused to follow commands, Heal said.

Once Noble was on the ground after the first shots, officers would have had to reassess the threat, Heal said.

The officers will need to explain the last two shots seen in the video, the expert said.

"Why didn't officers move in after the third shot and restrain him? Fourteen seconds is a long time to wait," Heal said. "Sometimes we get criticized for handcuffing dead people. But this is why we move in and restrain people."

[11B4V]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/us/michigan-courthouse-shooting/index.html

Well that is kind of unrelated. I mean you have to be pretty incompetent to let a suspect grab your gun so I guess that whole training part could be a tie in.

I wonder what retention holster they carry. Single, double, triple, or quad level.

For those who don't know what holster retention levels are. Go to 2:44 on vid.

https://www.safariland.com/holsters-and-gear-resources/holster-retention-levels.html

[11B4V]

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-video-shooting-dylan-noble-20160707-snap-story.html

At least one use-of-force expert said the chief's statement that the shooting sequence lasted more than 2 minutes was odd.

"That would be highly unusual. It's usually no more than five to 20 seconds between the first and last shot," said Charles "Sid" Heal, a former Los Angeles County sheriff's commander.

In cases where lethal force was used, "each and every shot must be justified as protecting the public or officers," Heal said.

Deadly force could be deemed justified if the officers feared for their lives because Noble made repeated furtive movements, refused to show his hands and refused to follow commands, Heal said.

Once Noble was on the ground after the first shots, officers would have had to reassess the threat, Heal said.

The officers will need to explain the last two shots seen in the video, the expert said.

"Why didn't officers move in after the third shot and restrain him? Fourteen seconds is a long time to wait," Heal said. "Sometimes we get criticized for handcuffing dead people. But this is why we move in and restrain people."

Damn, I think the brothers down guys.

Can't even articulate reflex fire on that one.

[CountDeMoney]

Face down, on the ground, and with multiple officers present...and yet nobody goes to handcuff the suspect while covered. But no, let's shoot him.  Unreal.

That's not how you were taught, gentlemen.  Time to lose your jobs and go to prison.

[CountDeMoney]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/us/michigan-courthouse-shooting/index.html

Well that is kind of unrelated. I mean you have to be pretty incompetent to let a suspect grab your gun so I guess that whole training part could be a tie in.

I wonder what retention holster they carry. Single, double, triple, or quad level.

Shouldn't fucking matter what level retention holster they carry;  it should've been empty.  Why the fuck is armed personnel anywhere near the holding cells?  Where are your gun boxes?  Are you fucking kidding me?

[11B4V]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/us/michigan-courthouse-shooting/index.html

Well that is kind of unrelated. I mean you have to be pretty incompetent to let a suspect grab your gun so I guess that whole training part could be a tie in.

I wonder what retention holster they carry. Single, double, triple, or quad level.

Shouldn't fucking matter what level retention holster they carry;  it should've been empty.  Why the fuck is armed personnel anywhere near the holding cells?  Where are your gun boxes?  Are you fucking kidding me?

Might not have been their procedure.

[Berkut]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/us/michigan-courthouse-shooting/index.html

Well that is kind of unrelated. I mean you have to be pretty incompetent to let a suspect grab your gun so I guess that whole training part could be a tie in.

I wonder what retention holster they carry. Single, double, triple, or quad level.

For those who don't know what holster retention levels are. Go to 2:44 on vid.

https://www.safariland.com/holsters-and-gear-resources/holster-retention-levels.html

That is pretty cool.

I would be worried that in the heat of the moment I would fumble the mechanism and not be able to draw easily though...practice, I suppose, can fix that.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Link to a New York Times article about the study BB posted upthread--I gotta say, while I dismissed it at first given the source (Commentary.com), it actually is pretty interesting and suggests the data we've been presented may not be all that useful or complete based on what this guy has found in a subsection of American cities.

[OttoVonBismarck]

That is pretty cool.

I would be worried that in the heat of the moment I would fumble the mechanism and not be able to draw easily though...practice, I suppose, can fix that.

This is actually why I don't carry concealed. I'll put my marksmanship with a rifle up against any ordinary, non-competitive shooter, but a pistol is a totally different thing. I'm more proficient with a pistol than Joe Nobody who has never fired one, but that isn't saying a lot. All these Rambo wannabes carrying pistols they shoot a few times at the range are pretty deluded in thinking they have a great hope of using it accurately, effectively, and without serious risk of collateral damage. How much have they practiced unholstering/drawing? That isn't actually something you practice 2-3 times and are "golden" at. You need to practice that a lot. I also question the holster many of them typically buy. Did they buy one they know is going to work well with their chosen firearm? Some shitty holsters, used with the wrong gun, can actually legitimately risk depressing the trigger when you draw.

I don't necessarily mind some people carrying concealed, but to do so safely you need a lot of range time with your pistol. You need a lot of practice drawing. You also probably need at least some level of tactical training, you need to learn some of the techniques for keeping yourself calm when you're in a life or death situation. Most cops don't get enough training at this, to be honest, let alone people who spend $400 on a gun, $75 on a CCW, and take the 8 hours or so of training that is usually required to get a CCW. Unless you're in some of the states that are now promoted "permitless concealed carry."

[OttoVonBismarck]

All of this also, to a degree, is something you need to practice so much it's second nature/muscle memory. And like most things of that nature--to remain good at you need to train regularly not once a year regularly. Probably more like once a month at a minimum. It's not just a matter of "get all the training you need before you start", you need to be committed to continually training for as long as you choose to carry a gun in public.