The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Berkut]

Gotta agree with garbo...while it is correct that all lives matter, bringing up that point in that context misses the point (and is slightly dick-ish).

I don't think it misses the point at all - saying "All lives matter" in response to this meme is very much understanding the point and trying to actively undermine it.

Of course all lives matter - the fact that there is a need to point out that "ALL" really should include "Black" is the point that "Black Lives Matter" is trying to make.

Turning that around and saying "All lives matter" is not "missing the point" at all. It is actively trying to refute the point, and attempt to put those uppity blacks back where they belong - which is where they can, have, and would continue to be killed at a alarming rate, where apparently it didn't seem to matter much at all. The status quo is and has been lip service to the idea that blacks are equal, while the reality is that they are not - demanding a return to the lip service strikes me as a way of defending that status quo.

[Barrister]

Gotta agree with garbo...while it is correct that all lives matter, bringing up that point in that context misses the point (and is slightly dick-ish).

I don't think it misses the point at all - saying "All lives matter" in response to this meme is very much understanding the point and trying to actively undermine it.

Of course all lives matter - the fact that there is a need to point out that "ALL" really should include "Black" is the point that "Black Lives Matter" is trying to make.

Turning that around and saying "All lives matter" is not "missing the point" at all. It is actively trying to refute the point, and attempt to put those uppity blacks back where they belong - which is where they can, have, and would continue to be killed at a alarming rate, where apparently it didn't seem to matter much at all. The status quo is and has been lip service to the idea that blacks are equal, while the reality is that they are not - demanding a return to the lip service strikes me as a way of defending that status quo.

This whole debate just infuriates me about the level of political discussion that is acceptable in this social media age.

I mean of course Black Lives Matter.

And of course All Lives Matter.

But maybe, just maybe, it would be more useful to move beyond bumper sticker slogals and hashtags and actually discuss policy changes?

[garbon]

But maybe, just maybe, it would be more useful to move beyond bumper sticker slogals and hashtags and actually discuss policy changes?

And I ask yet again, where is this lovely polite venue where this can be put forward serenely and then acted upon?

[Berkut]

Gotta agree with garbo...while it is correct that all lives matter, bringing up that point in that context misses the point (and is slightly dick-ish).

I don't think it misses the point at all - saying "All lives matter" in response to this meme is very much understanding the point and trying to actively undermine it.

Of course all lives matter - the fact that there is a need to point out that "ALL" really should include "Black" is the point that "Black Lives Matter" is trying to make.

Turning that around and saying "All lives matter" is not "missing the point" at all. It is actively trying to refute the point, and attempt to put those uppity blacks back where they belong - which is where they can, have, and would continue to be killed at a alarming rate, where apparently it didn't seem to matter much at all. The status quo is and has been lip service to the idea that blacks are equal, while the reality is that they are not - demanding a return to the lip service strikes me as a way of defending that status quo.

This whole debate just infuriates me about the level of political discussion that is acceptable in this social media age.

I mean of course Black Lives Matter.

And of course All Lives Matter.

But maybe, just maybe, it would be more useful to move beyond bumper sticker slogals and hashtags and actually discuss policy changes?

I don't disagree at all Beebs - but I've moved quite a ways on this (I am totally becoming a bleeding heart liberal, FFS) and not pretty much align with garbon.

I think riots and protests and slogans that often have little bearing on reality are generally very distasteful and offend my sense and demand for rationality.

But fuck - being reasonable and rational simply has not worked. Has it ever worked to address these kinds of inequities?

It seems like you have to be rather over the top fucked up to get anything real changed.

Which is why (sort of but not really related note) I am very worried about the long term "fix" for economic wealth accumulation disparity. I don't think it is going to get fixed by some rational, reasoned, sane discussion about how to adjust the system, since the system seems to be designed to not allow that to happen. So I suspect that at some point in the future, it will be changed in a more non-rational, non-sane manner. And that has potential to be very, very bad for everyone.

[Razgovory]

Gotta agree with garbo...while it is correct that all lives matter, bringing up that point in that context misses the point (and is slightly dick-ish).

I don't think it misses the point at all - saying "All lives matter" in response to this meme is very much understanding the point and trying to actively undermine it.

Of course all lives matter - the fact that there is a need to point out that "ALL" really should include "Black" is the point that "Black Lives Matter" is trying to make.

Turning that around and saying "All lives matter" is not "missing the point" at all. It is actively trying to refute the point, and attempt to put those uppity blacks back where they belong - which is where they can, have, and would continue to be killed at a alarming rate, where apparently it didn't seem to matter much at all. The status quo is and has been lip service to the idea that blacks are equal, while the reality is that they are not - demanding a return to the lip service strikes me as a way of defending that status quo.

Disagree.  Lots of different groups of people face a heavier hand from the police, not only blacks Are they bring up shooting at Indian reservations or against Hispanics?  Not really, no.  Second Black lives matter protesters have protested in many cases where a black suspect opened fire on a white officer and then lost the gun fight.  The implication is clear, that there are people in this movement who don't want police officers to act against certain ethnic groups under any circumstance.

[garbon]

Gotta agree with garbo...while it is correct that all lives matter, bringing up that point in that context misses the point (and is slightly dick-ish).

I don't think it misses the point at all - saying "All lives matter" in response to this meme is very much understanding the point and trying to actively undermine it.

Of course all lives matter - the fact that there is a need to point out that "ALL" really should include "Black" is the point that "Black Lives Matter" is trying to make.

Turning that around and saying "All lives matter" is not "missing the point" at all. It is actively trying to refute the point, and attempt to put those uppity blacks back where they belong - which is where they can, have, and would continue to be killed at a alarming rate, where apparently it didn't seem to matter much at all. The status quo is and has been lip service to the idea that blacks are equal, while the reality is that they are not - demanding a return to the lip service strikes me as a way of defending that status quo.

Disagree.  Lots of different groups of people face a heavier hand from the police, not only blacks Are they bring up shooting at Indian reservations or against Hispanics?  Not really, no.  Second Black lives matter protesters have protested in many cases where a black suspect opened fire on a white officer and then lost the gun fight.  The implication is clear, that there are people in this movement who don't want police officers to act against certain ethnic groups under any circumstance.

Well there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. No real issue to worry about.

[Razgovory]

Gotta agree with garbo...while it is correct that all lives matter, bringing up that point in that context misses the point (and is slightly dick-ish).

I don't think it misses the point at all - saying "All lives matter" in response to this meme is very much understanding the point and trying to actively undermine it.

Of course all lives matter - the fact that there is a need to point out that "ALL" really should include "Black" is the point that "Black Lives Matter" is trying to make.

Turning that around and saying "All lives matter" is not "missing the point" at all. It is actively trying to refute the point, and attempt to put those uppity blacks back where they belong - which is where they can, have, and would continue to be killed at a alarming rate, where apparently it didn't seem to matter much at all. The status quo is and has been lip service to the idea that blacks are equal, while the reality is that they are not - demanding a return to the lip service strikes me as a way of defending that status quo.

Disagree.  Lots of different groups of people face a heavier hand from the police, not only blacks Are they bring up shooting at Indian reservations or against Hispanics?  Not really, no.  Second Black lives matter protesters have protested in many cases where a black suspect opened fire on a white officer and then lost the gun fight.  The implication is clear, that there are people in this movement who don't want police officers to act against certain ethnic groups under any circumstance.

Well there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. No real issue to worry about.

Not sure how you came to understand that from my post.  Perhaps you'd like to walk me through that logic.

[garbon]

You said a bunch of irrelevant presumably thought to be disparaging things.

[derspiess]

Derspeiss was far more "pro-angry mob" back in 2010.

Was I?


(this is your cue to dig through all my 2010 posts-- go!!)

[Razgovory]

Derspeiss was far more "pro-angry mob" back in 2010.

Was I?


(this is your cue to dig through all my 2010 posts-- go!!)

Tea Party.

[derspiess]

You disappoint me, Brad.

[Razgovory]

You said a bunch of irrelevant presumably thought to be disparaging things.

You will have to do better then that.  Why are Hispanics shot by police unjustly "irrelevant"?  When a black man opens fire on a police officer why is "Black Lives Matter", relevant?

[Razgovory]

You disappoint me, Brad.

I disappoint you everyday.  However, back during the Tea Party rise you were just fine with people jumping up on stage screaming at politicians.  Not so much now.

[garbon]

You said a bunch of irrelevant presumably thought to be disparaging things.

You will have to do better then that.  Why are Hispanics shot by police unjustly "irrelevant"?  When a black man opens fire on a police officer why is "Black Lives Matter", relevant?

How about you spend some time to work that out for yourself and report back?

[Razgovory]

You said a bunch of irrelevant presumably thought to be disparaging things.

You will have to do better then that.  Why are Hispanics shot by police unjustly "irrelevant"?  When a black man opens fire on a police officer why is "Black Lives Matter", relevant?

How about you spend some time to work that out for yourself and report back?

No matter how much I work I can't know what you think.  You have to tell me.