The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[garbon]

The shouting Bernie Sanders off the stage thing is bizarre, yet given that they had already tried to do it, not surprising.  Also kinda funny.

Oh it is funny no doubt. They are insane. It is more outrageous to them when a commie is not commie enough than if somebody is a non-commie. Radicals going to radical.

But frustrating since, in theory, they should be a productive force in a movement I support.

To be honest, I'm not that bothered by the black lives movement. Clearly polite methods are ineffective - so perhaps getting uppity will work.

Besides, it isn't like the group is only going after Dems. They came after Bush last week too.

[Valmy]

The shouting Bernie Sanders off the stage thing is bizarre, yet given that they had already tried to do it, not surprising.  Also kinda funny.

Oh it is funny no doubt. They are insane. It is more outrageous to them when a commie is not commie enough than if somebody is a non-commie. Radicals going to radical.

But frustrating since, in theory, they should be a productive force in a movement I support.

To be honest, I'm not that bothered by the black lives movement. Clearly polite methods are ineffective - so perhaps getting uppity will work.

Besides, it isn't like the group is only going after Dems. They came after Bush last week too.

It is not the fact that they are uppity it is the fact they have decided in order to reform the police they need to destroy Capitalism. I want them out being uppity about police reform.

[garbon]

Ah, I hadn't seen that.

[derspiess]

I just like how shitty they get when someone tells them all lives matter.

[garbon]

They should though.

[derspiess]

They should though.

Because all lives don't matter.

[garbon]

They should though.

Because all lives don't matter.

No, that would not be why. More because it trivializes/ignores the statement they are making that by-in-large American society has fostered the image that black lives, if they matter, matter significantly less than other lives*. This isn't a problem that can be solved by adhering to color blindness.

*akin to why Black Pride/Black is Beautiful were relevant movements.

[derspiess]

So one has to agree with and accept that underlying claim as fact?  I don't. 

Regardless, it's bad PR for your group if you boo and hiss and scream when someone says something as inocuous as "all lives matter."  Or, heaven forbid, "police lives matter."

[Tonitrus]

Gotta agree with garbo...while it is correct that all lives matter, bringing up that point in that context misses the point (and is slightly dick-ish).

[garbon]

So one has to agree with and accept that underlying claim as fact?  I don't. 

I guess you don't have to - but I'm not sure why you would cavalierly dismiss how people are telling you that they feel. Even if they are wrong and there hasn't been any messaging that their lives matter less, you still need to deal with the impact of how their "inaccurate perception" affects reality.

Regardless, it's bad PR for your group if you boo and hiss and scream when someone says something as inocuous as "all lives matter."  Or, heaven forbid, "police lives matter."

I disagree. In this context such statements, and particularly the latter one, are not innocuous but rather an outright rejection or rug covering of the initial statement about black lives. I can't even imagine how a person could say in response to that "police lives matter" without derision.

[derspiess]

I guess you don't have to - but I'm not sure why you would cavalierly dismiss how people are telling you that they feel. Even if they are wrong and there hasn't been any messaging that their lives matter less, you still need to deal with the impact of how their "inaccurate perception" affects reality.

If it were a setting where you could sit down and calmly discuss things, sure.  But this group apparently doesn't have any plans beyond interrupting an event, not letting anyone else speak, and shouting a three-word chant over & over.  If they've simplified it down to that, a simple three-word response is quite appropriate IMO.

I disagree.

Okay.

[garbon]

If it were a setting where you could sit down and calmly discuss things, sure.  But this group apparently doesn't have any plans beyond interrupting an event, not letting anyone else speak, and shouting a three-word chant over & over.  If they've simplified it down to that, a simple three-word response is quite appropriate IMO.

And where exactly is this setting where it would be effectual to sit down and calmly "discuss things", as you say? It isn't like it is a new thing that black people have concerns about police that trample over their civil liberties, that kill them - concerns regarding local and federal agencies that tacitly let these issues persist.

No being polite doesn't seem, at least in my lifetime, to have shepherded in much change.  Here in the 21st century, we shouldn't be in a place where the mayor of one of the most important cities in the world needs to caution his half black son about being deferential to the police, just as a matter of basic safety.

And so, you get groups like this getting uppity, causing a ruckus aimed at politicians. Said politicians may not care much about the issue (or even view it as an issue at all) but you know damn sure they dislike putting up with being antagonized.

Though it was disruptive to the population at large, and had me concerned about safety - in particular my own when I found myself caught in the middle of the protests, I was sort of glad when we had the mass protests across the nation last year as the little bit of optimist in me was like good, people are caring about this issue and they are taking it beyond something simply just lived experiences / theory taking place on university campuses and making it something that that the nation at large is forced to confront. Something that the media was going to cover and propagate.  And I think we're starting to see more offending police officers punished that heretofore would not have in the previous climate.

And sure, some people might be turned off by the seeming lack of content behind such a blacklivesmatter message, but then were those people even listening when one spoke politely about police brutality?

Okay.

[derspiess]

And where exactly is this setting where it would be effectual to sit down and calmly "discuss things", as you say? It isn't like it is a new thing that black people have concerns about police that trample over their civil liberties, that kill them - concerns regarding local and federal agencies that tacitly let these issues persist.

Obviously you're not going to be able to calmly discuss things.  The angry mob will have none of that. 

No being polite doesn't seem, at least in my lifetime, to have shepherded in much change.  Here in the 21st century, we shouldn't be in a place where the mayor of one of the most important cities in the world needs to caution his half black son about being deferential to the police, just as a matter of basic safety.

Don't be polite, then.  You're only going to push people away.  And cautioning your son about being deferential to police, that's kind of good advice across the board regardless of race. 

And so, you get groups like this getting uppity, causing a ruckus aimed at politicians. Said politicians may not care much about the issue (or even view it as an issue at all) but you know damn sure they dislike putting up with being antagonized.

Go ahead and antagonize Bernie Sanders, Jeb and Hillary, by all means.  It's rude and really seems to backfire from a PR standpoint, but have at them.

Though it was disruptive to the population at large, and had me concerned about safety - in particular my own when I found myself caught in the middle of the protests, I was sort of glad when we had the mass protests across the nation last year as the little bit of optimist in me was like good, people are caring about this issue and they are taking it beyond something simply just lived experiences / theory taking place on university campuses and making it something that that the nation at large is forced to confront. Something that the media was going to cover and propagate.  And I think we're starting to see more offending police officers punished that heretofore would not have in the previous climate.

Agree to disagree.  I don't think the protests did much, particularly when some of them turned violent.  Body cameras seem to be more of a positive difference-maker. 

And sure, some people might be turned off by the seeming lack of content behind such a blacklivesmatter message, but then were those people even listening when one spoke politely about police brutality?

It's all over the damned news.  Every news outlet blasts it 24/7 whenever there's an unarmed black man shot by police.    Even when the shooting is justified (i.e., Ferguson) it's spun as if it were murder.

[garbon]

It wasn't.

[Razgovory]

Derspeiss was far more "pro-angry mob" back in 2010.