The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Razgovory]

There is something seriously wrong when I start siding with Derspeiss.

Definitely. Time to reassess your assumptions and reasoning.

Well I should clarify and say I don't think Derspeiss should be shooting at cops from his house either.

[CountDeMoney]

Do you even have any idea how silly you sound?

If in fact we had made no progress since 1865, then we should sit on our laurels - hell, if the effect of 160 years of trying is "no better now than then" then we should probably conclude it is hopeless.

This is YOUR argument, not mine.

The reality is of course that we have made incredible progress, which suggests that we should *continue* to work, since progress is being made. Your argument, in your fanatical desire to make everything binary, is actually arguing against your own supposed desires.

Incredible progress.  At every turn, there has been nothing but consistent political, legal, economic and even violent push-back against progress.  Free the slaves?  Enter the Klan.  The Reconstruction amendments?  Pass Jim Crow laws.  Brown v Board of Education? School integration at the point of a  bayonet.  The US Department of Justice monitoring elections in the South and other areas for 50 years, our own country, like some sort of 3rd world shit hole. 

And now, TODAY, where the color of authority is still killing black men in obscenely disproportionate numbers.  Where states are making concrete, specific efforts to restricting the ability to vote, knowing full well who it's going to hit the hardest.  Where every possible attempt is being made to eliminate the safety net when the economic playing field still isn't even.  All this time, it's been a constant list of bullshit terms veiling true intentions.  "States' Rights."  "Separate But Equal."  "Welfare Fraud."  "Voter Fraud."  "Stand Your Ground."  It's always new code words masking the same racism, trying to force our society one step back for every two steps forward. 

Yesterday's jars of jelly beans are today's photo IDs. They're not drinking from separate water fountains, but there are active attempts to make sure they're being boxed into their own districts, like the one tossed out in Virginia. THIS FUCKING WEEK. 

If we've made such incredible progress as a society, why are we dealing with the same variations on a theme, over and over?  The same attempts from different angles, with different tactics?  Our society hasn't progressed as much as you think it has.

[Berkut]

Well, we are at least making progress with you - we've gone from none at all to not as much as you think it has.

So that is something.

[CountDeMoney]

Stop being that white guy that rates "On a scale of 1 to 10, have race relations improved in America" as an 8.

[garbon]

It has progressed more than you are stating though, Seeds. While certainly there are still many fundamental things that need fixing, there has been progress. Like Berkut said, if we hadn't made any headway by now then we might as well give into the inevitability and give up.

I'd say that when I think about my life and the lives of other black people in my generation that I know - our lives are very different from what they would have been if we've all been born just two decades earlier.

[CountDeMoney]

I'd say that when I think about my life and the lives of other black people in my generation that I know - our lives are very different from what they would have been if we've all been born just two decades earlier.

But I'm sure there's quite a few garbons somewhere in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and in plenty of inner cities elsewhere right now that would disagree with you.  And that's the unfortunate part.

[garbon]

I'd say that when I think about my life and the lives of other black people in my generation that I know - our lives are very different from what they would have been if we've all been born just two decades earlier.

But I'm sure there's quite a few garbons somewhere in Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and in plenty of inner cities elsewhere right now that would disagree with you.  And that's the unfortunate part.

Oh agreed. But Berkut is right to point out that we can't look at them and say no progress has been made. If we really haven't made any meaningful progress since 1865, why bother trying now?

[CountDeMoney]

If we really haven't made any meaningful progress since 1865, why bother trying now?

When the last white person no longer feels the need to lock the car doors at an intersection with a black man on the corner at night, then the work will be done.

[garbon]

But who is saying the work is done?

[CountDeMoney]

But who is saying the work is done?

Apparently a substantial number of your fellow countrymen.  Voting Rights Act?  No longer necessary.  Affirmative Action? It's served its purpose.  Fair Housing Act?  Time to kill it.

There are plenty out there who think the Civil Rights movement is over.  And they're winning elections, crafting laws, sitting on court benches.

[garbon]

I meant as in who here - in how Berkut inspired your ire but certainly wasn't saying that.

[Admiral Yi]

When the last white person no longer feels the need to lock the car doors at an intersection with a black man on the corner at night, then the work will be done.

Can black people keep on locking their car doors in the hood?

[Eddie Teach]

If we really haven't made any meaningful progress since 1865, why bother trying now?

When the last white person no longer feels the need to lock the car doors at an intersection with a black man on the corner at night, then the work will be done.

Good news, now the car does it automatically.

[Ed Anger]

I lock the door when I see a skeev of any color.

I am better than you.

[derspiess]

Well I should clarify and say I don't think Derspeiss should be shooting at cops from his house either.

I think we're of the same mind on that as well.  I can't imagine a situation where I'm leaning out of the bedroom window taking potshots at cops