The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[jimmy olsen]

Crowds in Louisville, where Taylor was shot at home in March, began marching and many cried moments after the announcement by a judge that a grand jury had decided to indict only Brett Hankison, on three charges of wanton endangerment.

Those are regarded as relatively lowly charges. They were related to the fact that Hankison fired his gun while he was still outside Taylor's apartment and therefore endangered people living in other nearby apartments.

Hankison was not charged for shooting Taylor, and the other two officers present, who also fired multiple times at Taylor in her apartment, were not charged.

The lawyer Ben Crump said on behalf of Taylor's family that the grand jury's decision was "outrageous and offensive".

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1308844769670500352

[Eddie Teach]

Hard to charge cops for returning fire, even when their aim is shitty.

[merithyn]

People think you're a poor. 

It's more like they think Louisville is a tiny dot on a map, rather than a sprawling metropolitan area with a million residents.

I get that because of Portland all the time.

[DGuller]

Hard to charge cops for returning fire, even when their aim is shitty.

They hit her five times.  If their aim was shitty, it was shitty in a very consistent way.

[viper37]

Portland this weekend is supposed to be a shit-show. About 1000 armed Proud Boys/right-wing Trumpers threatening violence at one park.  (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/23/oregon-portland-pro-trump-protests-violence-texts) Something like 3000-5000 BLMs protesters at another park three miles away.

What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing.  American gun owners are well behaved and only use their guns in self defense.  Besides, the police will be there to seperate the crowd and everyone knows how much the Proud Boys appreciate the police, so they wouldn't do anything they're not expressely told by the police.

[viper37]

Hard to charge cops for returning fire, even when their aim is shitty.

They hit her five times.  If their aim was shitty, it was shitty in a very consistent way.

5 times out of more than 20 bullets, with 3 officers involved.  It's shitty aim, at best 25% of the bullets hit their target the others flying wide everywhere in the apt and the neighbours' apt.  More badluck that she was hit than anything else.
And I doubt a jury would condemn the officers since they were shot at first and an independant investigation has concluded they knocked and announced themselves.

[DGuller]

They hit her five times.  If their aim was shitty, it was shitty in a very consistent way.

5 times out of more than 20 bullets, with 3 officers involved.  It's shitty aim, at best 25% of the bullets hit their target the others flying wide everywhere in the apt and the neighbours' apt.  More badluck that she was hit than anything else.

I think you have vastly exaggerated expectations of how accurate you can expect even trained people to be with pistols during a stressful situation.

[Barrister]

They hit her five times.  If their aim was shitty, it was shitty in a very consistent way.

5 times out of more than 20 bullets, with 3 officers involved.  It's shitty aim, at best 25% of the bullets hit their target the others flying wide everywhere in the apt and the neighbours' apt.  More badluck that she was hit than anything else.

I think you have vastly exaggerated expectations of how accurate you can expect even trained people to be with pistols during a stressful situation.

I've only ever fired a gun time in my life.  Mrs B and I went to a shooting range as part of my birthday.

Even in a very calm and relaxed shooting range, it was difficult for me to even hit the target, never mind hit the centre of it.

[viper37]

They hit her five times.  If their aim was shitty, it was shitty in a very consistent way.

5 times out of more than 20 bullets, with 3 officers involved.  It's shitty aim, at best 25% of the bullets hit their target the others flying wide everywhere in the apt and the neighbours' apt.  More badluck that she was hit than anything else.

I think you have vastly exaggerated expectations of how accurate you can expect even trained people to be with pistols during a stressful situation.

I had a recent chat with a firearm instructor who re-trains the police officers in his town.  Even in non stressful situation, it seems their aim is shitty.  About 1/10 can hit center body mass, the others don't even touch the target.

Somehow, I expected Americans to be better with their gun.

[grumbler]

5 times out of more than 20 bullets, with 3 officers involved.  It's shitty aim, at best 25% of the bullets hit their target the others flying wide everywhere in the apt and the neighbours' apt.  More badluck that she was hit than anything else.
And I doubt a jury would condemn the officers since they were shot at first and an independant investigation has concluded they knocked and announced themselves.

That's not shitty aim, that's shitty luck on her part.  No one was shooting at her, they were just blazing away into an occupied building, hoping to kill someone.

None of them should ever have been made cops, and none should ever be legally allowed to touch a gun again.  They cannot be trusted with things that could hurt others.

[DGuller]

Is there a visual of some kind depicting the scene?  I have a hard time picturing what the situation was even after all this time.  Frankly, I find it very hard to picture how someone can be struck by stray bullets 5 times out of 20 shots fired.  You have to be pretty good and calm shooter to hit your intended target so many times, how can you hit a bystander so many times?  Is it certain that she was a bystander and not a mistaken target?

[Syt]

Speaking of mistaken - have there been any consequences for the cops being at the wrong apartment in the first place?

[DGuller]

Speaking of mistaken, the sole witness who heard police announce themselves was a late convert to the story.  Originally he said they didn't announce themselves. 

[Tonitrus]

Speaking of mistaken - have there been any consequences for the cops being at the wrong apartment in the first place?

It really seems to be a tragic, cascading stream of factors from poorly trained officers using flawed search/raid tactics involving a sloppy investigation with flawed (if not illegal) tactics/procedures.

The entire case would probably not even be news if there were not the death of an innocent victim.  And even that would have been a tragedy of sorts, in itself, in that all of the aforementioned would have just been ignored (and might still be, alas). 

[Sheilbh]

It really seems to be a tragic, cascading stream of factors from poorly trained officers using flawed search/raid tactics involving a sloppy investigation with flawed (if not illegal) tactics/procedures.

The entire case would probably not even be news if there were not the death of an innocent victim.  And even that would have been a tragedy of sorts, in itself, in that all of the aforementioned would have just been ignored (and might still be, alas).

Athough I wonder if people are poorly trained and using flawed tactics sloppily because they know they won't be consequences, even up to the point they kill an innocent person.