The Shooting Gallery: Police Violence MEGATHREAD

[Tamas]

Surely these states rights or anti-federal militias will now stand up and protect the peaceful civilians protesting from federal overreach. Right?

If Trump wins a second term, by this time next year the GOP will be loudly demanding more federal control of everything, while on CNN serious talking heads will be analysing the pros and cons of California seceding from the Union.

[Syt]

Surely these states rights or anti-federal militias will now stand up and protect the peaceful civilians protesting from federal overreach. Right?

I think most of them are ok with government tyranny if it oppresses "the right people"(TM).

[Sheilbh]

Surely these states rights or anti-federal militias will now stand up and protect the peaceful civilians protesting from federal overreach. Right?

I think most of them are ok with government tyranny if it oppresses "the right people"(TM).

Fair. I imagine they're mainly disappointed the FEMA camps are still underutilised

[jimmy olsen]

Not the most professional riot control for sure:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1284726088187310080

That manlet is laying into that navy vet full throttle and the vet didn't even budge, despite getting his hand broken.

[Josquius]

Surely these states rights or anti-federal militias will now stand up and protect the peaceful civilians protesting from federal overreach. Right?

If Trump wins a second term, by this time next year the GOP will be loudly demanding more federal control of everything, while on CNN serious talking heads will be analysing the pros and cons of California seceding from the Union.

Given how things have went in the past few months it really does seem feasible he could throw off all pretense and go full putin.
And oh how will his supporters cheer.

[Admiral Yi]

Seems to me if protesters stay away from federal buildings this issue goes away.

[Valmy]

Seems to me if protesters stay away from federal buildings this issue goes away.

Well the Feds gave them something to protest.

[PDH]

And if those Blacks didn't get so uppity we wouldn't have to turn the dogs loose on them.

[Sheilbh]

Seems to me if protesters stay away from federal buildings this issue goes away.

But as I say this type of protest seems classic Gandhi/MLK approach - the purpose is to provoke a response.

[Admiral Yi]

But as I say this type of protest seems classic Gandhi/MLK approach - the purpose is to provoke a response.

I don't know the particulars, but I've read about "damage to federal property."  I'm guessing some spray painting, but that's just a guess.  That's not just provoking a response, that's breaking a law, a law that most people in this country probably think is a good and just law that needs no changing.  That's not what Gandhi and MLK did.

[Eddie Teach]

Most people think "big fucking deal" about spray painting.

[Sheilbh]

I don't know the particulars, but I've read about "damage to federal property."  I'm guessing some spray painting, but that's just a guess.  That's not just provoking a response, that's breaking a law, a law that most people in this country probably think is a good and just law that needs no changing.  That's not what Gandhi and MLK did.

Okay. But you were talking about staying away from Federal property not damaging Federal property.

Anyway isn't the "damage to federal property" just the excuse the administration has used to deploy the Federal Protective Service (backed up by ICE, CBP, TSA etc) against protesters? Because if there's no damage or risk to the property, you don't need to deploy the Federal Protective Service - especially because it creates federal jurisdiction. Though I note the Acting DHS Secretary has said today "I don't need invitations by the state, state mayors or state governors to do our job. We're going to do that whether they like us there or not."

And, you know, Trump today has said Portland is worse than Afghanistan and his people are doing a great job on the streets "they grab em, a lot of people in jail". So I'm not entirely convinced this police crackdown is entirely motivated by a desire to prevent graffiti (and, even if it was, is the response proportionate).

[Syt]

I don't know the particulars, but I've read about "damage to federal property."  I'm guessing some spray painting, but that's just a guess.  That's not just provoking a response, that's breaking a law, a law that most people in this country probably think is a good and just law that needs no changing.  That's not what Gandhi and MLK did.

Do you think militarized police forces disappearing people in unmarked vehicles is a proportionate response to spray paint on federal buildings?

[Admiral Yi]

Okay. But you were talking about staying away from Federal property not damaging Federal property.

Anyway isn't the "damage to federal property" just the excuse the administration has used to deploy the Federal Protective Service (backed up by ICE, CBP, TSA etc) against protesters? Because if there's no damage or risk to the property, you don't need to deploy the Federal Protective Service - especially because it creates federal jurisdiction. Though I note the Acting DHS Secretary has said today "I don't need invitations by the state, state mayors or state governors to do our job. We're going to do that whether they like us there or not."

And, you know, Trump today has said Portland is worse than Afghanistan and his people are doing a great job on the streets "they grab em, a lot of people in jail". So I'm not entirely convinced this police crackdown is entirely motivated by a desire to prevent graffiti (and, even if it was, is the response proportionate).

You're right to the first.  Should be don't damage, not stay away.

As to the second, what difference does it make if it's just an excuse or not? Or rather I should say that's the narrative we'd prefer to focus on.  But the actual principle at stake is whether protesters in a virtuous cause should be able to damage federal property without repercussion.  The damage to federal property creates the legal and moral justification for action.  It's what starts to turn centrists like myself away from the virtuous protesters in a virtuous cause/evil Trump and his jack booted thugs narrative toward something more morally gray.

[Valmy]

It seems like we should expect more from our paid servants of the state than we should a large disorganized mob.

Their extra-legal application of force towards non-violent people is about a billion times worse than some spray painting. Yes anybody caught spray painting federal property should be appropriately punished according to the law, not whatever bizarre methods we are seeing on display in Portland..

I don't think randos should be held to a higher standard than trained professionals earning a living a living at tax payer expense.

A few randos spray painting something does not mean we can just toss out the Constitution and start dishing out extra-legal violence to whomever.